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this is Lou Elizondo and you are

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listening to that UFO podcast

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[Music]

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hi everyone and welcome back to that

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year 4 podcast for the final time this

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year that you'll hear from me in an

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interview form I thought we'd look back

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at the year in review and there's no one

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better to do that with than my guest

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joining me he is the editor-in-chief

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Creator co-founder of the D belief and

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host of the aptly named Micah Hank show

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I'm joined by Micah Hanks Michael

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welcome back to the podcast Andy great

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to be here in season's greetings my

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friend yes and to you too people will be

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listening to this uh just the day before

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Christmas Christmas Day a few days after

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and

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through the magic of time travel in the

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future as well so hi to those in the

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future

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um Micah I've always said I've got a

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face for radio you have a voice for it

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as well so uh what I want to do is look

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through your year in terms of UFOs

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because a lot happened this year some of

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the stories I'm going to look at aren't

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necessarily directly related to UFOs but

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I'm looking at 12 articles 11 of them

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written by yourself on the Fantastic

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debrief website the links to the debrief

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is going to be in the show description I

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cite it often enough I talk about it

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often enough people will not be

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surprised it's one of my go-to resources

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for any UFO news to pick up on a quick

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point I mentioned to you this to you

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before we started recording and you

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thought it was worth bringing up as well

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for anyone who looks at the UFO topic

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and can say on a month-to-month basis

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not much is happening that's just not

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true is it it's not true at all and in

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fact you know I I like to do what I call

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internet archeology where I'll find

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archived Pages thanks to the fine folks

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at Wayback machine and internet archive

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one of my favorite websites there has

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been so much information put out about

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the UAP subject and of course back

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before they were known as uaps they were

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known as UFOs and a lot of that

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information is no longer available

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online but you know one thing that you

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can find VIA Wayback machine is an

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archived page on UFOs that was once

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featured at the Department of Defense

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website and on that page it had said as

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you may know the department no longer

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looks at this issue

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and then they kind of summarize the

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findings of Project Blue Book but I

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bring that up here to mention the fact

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that at the time that that statement was

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on their page on the website all sap was

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running out of the DIA which is a combat

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support agency within the dod and it's

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not so much that things aren't happening

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but often the case is that when things

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are happening the public doesn't have a

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full awareness of it that program was

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running behind the scenes while on the

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front face the dod was still saying we

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don't have any involvement investigating

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or an investigation of UAP nowadays we

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have a whole lot more accountability and

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there are a lot of people who have been

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and who remain very suspicious about

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that you know they're saying we've got

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the all domain anomaly resolution office

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that's just opened up and why all of a

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sudden is the government coming out and

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saying that they're involved in these

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things why all of a sudden does the

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government want us to know that they're

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investigating UAP and they're you know

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naming the officials who are looking at

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it went back years ago it was all

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protected some of these things were

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special access programs some

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investigations may still be we don't

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know but now there's legislation that's

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trying to kind of limit how much secrecy

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on this subject can continue and to try

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and move toward broader transparency

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again I bring all that up to say that

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there's probably a whole lot more going

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on than people are aware of but as

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journalists over at the debrief you know

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myself Tim McMillan MJ benais Chris

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plane and Chrissy Newton we are always

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trying to speak with officials

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politicians scientists and other people

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who are involved in aspects of this that

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don't see the kind of reporting that we

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have seen maybe so much of since 2017

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and although a few people have continued

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to say that ah things have really died

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down nothing really to see here until

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this next report comes out there's

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always something happening whether or

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not it's Sensational whether or not it

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appears on the front page of the New

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York Times so we continue to present

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that information and do so steadily over

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at the debrief and I'm very proud to be

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here with you today Andy and I

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appreciate your reading of our website

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because as you've noted our team

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continues to cover this and we do it you

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know very frequently because there's

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always something bubbling whether or not

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that's under the surface

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do you think that's a bit of a symptom

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of the digital age the social media age

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the fact that people refresh their news

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feeds now and expect the news now they

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expect it five minutes ago and if if

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it's a story that's a day old it's not

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worth noticing so they're looking

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through and going ah nothing's happened

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this week when in the past you would

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have one case and you would hear about

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it for years and it was in a newsletter

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or a quarter an annual newsletter would

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come out and you would read about the

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UFO news for the year over a couple of

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pages and I think now again we're

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looking back through a debrief website

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and researching I've recorded numerous

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breakdowns this year breaking news

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podcasts I've recorded interviews all

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over the place there's been books

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documentaries there's been Casey's

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sightings there's a plethora of

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information and I just feel sometimes

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people don't realize and won't realize

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what we've got until in the fullness of

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time they can take a step back and look

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at the timeline of say 2017 to 2022 or

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2023 and go wow look what happened in

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those five or six years absolutely yeah

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first of all people have been completely

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spoiled by how much information has been

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coming about coming out about this in

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recent years and as a result of that

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expectation of there always being

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something breaking and there being

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something revelatory or Sensational if

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it isn't a revelation if it isn't

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Sensational if it has to do with policy

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you know draft language in a bill like

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for the forthcoming 2023 fiscal year

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National Defense authorization act or

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something like that you know if it's

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something that gets more into the

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minutiae people do tend to kind of go

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okay well I'm not interested show me

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them aliens where are the bodies give us

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the wreckage you know this subject is

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far more nuanced than that and back

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during the 1990s even earlier than that

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you know much of this subject was kind

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of led by the more speculative side of

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things people claiming to have had

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first-hand experiences not only with UAP

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but also their occupants people also

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claiming to have remembrance of seeing

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crashed discs and things alleged U.S

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military recover of these now it's not

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to say that the military has not

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recovered exotic craft I don't know if

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they have or have not I have my

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suspicions that maybe there is more than

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the public knows but a lot less than

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popular books from that era would have

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us believe but where we're moving into

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this new era in the 21st century and

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especially since 2017 we are seeing more

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credible more responsible reporting on

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this yes it involves far less

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Sensational aspects of the phenomenon

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you look at those military videos you

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look at the accounts by Witnesses

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they're still describing pretty

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remarkable things but I would stop short

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of calling them extraordinary because

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really we seem to almost be closing in

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on understanding some of the

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technologies that UAP appear to

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represent we are beginning to understand

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better way days you know methods of

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detecting them both by the US military

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but also scientific organizations and as

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we come closer to really credibly

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studying this and evaluating what it may

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mean I get it a lot of people are losing

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interest a lot of the Old Guard are

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saying well this isn't interesting we

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already figured all this stuff out

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decades ago but in truth we didn't this

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is a new era and often science goes

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through this kind of there was the

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mythology beforehand and then there are

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the observations of aspects of that

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phenomena that we begin to realize okay

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there is something here but there's been

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a whole narrative built around that

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which may not be accurate let's just

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Whittle that down to its finest Essence

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and see what we're really dealing with

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we're at that point right now and

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although that may be a little uh tedious

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and granular for a lot of folks to have

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to try and Wade through with all the

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language in the bills the scientific

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papers published by organizations like

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the scientific Coalition for UAP studies

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which I'm actually a contributing member

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you know that may not appeal to the

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general public but it's some of the most

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important work that's been done with

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this topic really ever not just in this

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Century but ever before

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it certainly as and I think there's a

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good Link in there you're talking about

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the science and we're going to start in

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a place in January because that was the

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start of the Year folks I've done my

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research uh where science really came to

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the Forefront and it's not directly

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related to the UFO topic but one day

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sooner than later it very much could be

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and the James Webb Telescope arrived at

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its orbital destination around 1 million

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miles away that article was on the

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debrief website the link will be in the

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description to the show I want to ask

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first off Micah the James Webb Telescope

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as a technological achievement what are

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your thoughts

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well it is one of the greatest

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astronomical achievements for a number

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of reasons first and foremost we have

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very limited ability with ground-based

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telescopes and really in truth even our

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past space observatories to view distant

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regions of space the James Webb Space

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Telescope is unique for a few reasons

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one because it's further out it's not a

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ground-based telescope and therefore it

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can get past some of the atmospheric

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Haze that Earth presents to ground-based

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observatories but it also is capable of

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perceiving outside of our visible range

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of the Spectra it can actually see into

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the infrared which allows it to see

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regions of space and sometimes even

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through areas of space that past

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telescopes weren't able to see through

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when we see the star stuff that Carl

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Sagan always talked about with regard to

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you know the Stellar gases and things

275
00:09:24,590 --> 00:09:21,839
like that that are part of the process

276
00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:24,600
of planetary and star formation those

277
00:09:27,769 --> 00:09:26,160
regions of space are difficult to see

278
00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:27,779
beyond but when there are light sources

279
00:09:32,690 --> 00:09:29,580
Beyond them that are obscured within the

280
00:09:34,730 --> 00:09:32,700
visible Spectra with infrared we can

281
00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:34,740
sometimes see beyond that and we can see

282
00:09:38,090 --> 00:09:36,660
re you know literally you know regions

283
00:09:40,009 --> 00:09:38,100
of space that were invisible to us

284
00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:40,019
before thanks to the technology that

285
00:09:45,170 --> 00:09:43,140
Webb provides it is without question the

286
00:09:46,850 --> 00:09:45,180
most advanced space Observatory that has

287
00:09:48,889 --> 00:09:46,860
ever been put into orbit by humans and

288
00:09:50,870 --> 00:09:48,899
so really just to summarize right there

289
00:09:52,790 --> 00:09:50,880
all those reasons to me make this the

290
00:09:54,410 --> 00:09:52,800
most promising astronomical Endeavor

291
00:09:58,250 --> 00:09:54,420
that we have seen in recent years maybe

292
00:10:00,170 --> 00:09:58,260
in several decades uh short uh behind it

293
00:10:01,930 --> 00:10:00,180
I guess you know is very close probably

294
00:10:04,250 --> 00:10:01,940
the Hubble Space Telescope but again

295
00:10:06,350 --> 00:10:04,260
with the combination of the data that we

296
00:10:08,150 --> 00:10:06,360
get from both of these observatories and

297
00:10:10,009 --> 00:10:08,160
also artificial intelligence that we're

298
00:10:11,870 --> 00:10:10,019
using to help process data more quickly

299
00:10:13,430 --> 00:10:11,880
the efforts of astronomers citizen

300
00:10:15,710 --> 00:10:13,440
scientists getting involved with the

301
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:15,720
processing of this information I have

302
00:10:19,550 --> 00:10:17,040
noticed since the launch of the James

303
00:10:20,990 --> 00:10:19,560
Webb Space Telescope being a space and

304
00:10:23,630 --> 00:10:21,000
science reporter there at the debrief

305
00:10:26,810 --> 00:10:23,640
I've noticed an acceleration a notable

306
00:10:29,570 --> 00:10:26,820
acceleration in the collection and

307
00:10:31,130 --> 00:10:29,580
processing of data this year alone that

308
00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:31,140
to me really says something and again

309
00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:32,760
going forward we're only going to get

310
00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:34,620
more of it it's going to improve our

311
00:10:37,850 --> 00:10:36,240
knowledge of past studies and it's going

312
00:10:40,430 --> 00:10:37,860
to help us probably find things not only

313
00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:40,440
in just the visible sense but also in

314
00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:43,440
terms of collecting data that will lead

315
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:44,880
to realities we probably never would

316
00:10:49,550 --> 00:10:46,800
have guessed and again you know this is

317
00:10:51,050 --> 00:10:49,560
something that many including um NASA

318
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:51,060
administrator Bill Nelson and others

319
00:10:54,829 --> 00:10:53,519
have kind of echoed we're probably going

320
00:10:55,850 --> 00:10:54,839
to go looking for the unknown but we're

321
00:10:58,490 --> 00:10:55,860
going to find things we never even

322
00:11:00,290 --> 00:10:58,500
thought to look for thanks to James Webb

323
00:11:03,170 --> 00:11:00,300
what do you think it's going to show us

324
00:11:04,730 --> 00:11:03,180
in or help us learn about our own place

325
00:11:07,310 --> 00:11:04,740
in the universe do you have any

326
00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:07,320
expectations in the short to long term

327
00:11:13,009 --> 00:11:10,680
short to medium term even yeah I do

328
00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:13,019
we're already seeing the furthest out in

329
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:16,380
space some of the earliest galaxies in

330
00:11:19,610 --> 00:11:18,120
space we're learning new things about

331
00:11:22,430 --> 00:11:19,620
those galaxies thanks to the information

332
00:11:24,410 --> 00:11:22,440
that Webb provides I suspect that we're

333
00:11:26,810 --> 00:11:24,420
probably going to soon begin to close in

334
00:11:28,610 --> 00:11:26,820
on some of the questions like dark

335
00:11:31,310 --> 00:11:28,620
energy you know we're going to

336
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:31,320
understand why there's this anomalous

337
00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:33,120
acceleration of the universe when the

338
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:34,560
mass that exists in our universe

339
00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:37,440
shouldn't be allowing for the rate of

340
00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:40,200
the expansion that actually occurs and

341
00:11:45,530 --> 00:11:41,940
by a better capability of being able to

342
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:45,540
observe the movement of the universe and

343
00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:48,480
the the ongoing expansion and being able

344
00:11:53,810 --> 00:11:51,000
to measure those distances and to be

345
00:11:55,130 --> 00:11:53,820
able to understand the Dynamics of how

346
00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:55,140
the universe works in the galaxies

347
00:11:58,490 --> 00:11:56,640
within it and being able to see further

348
00:12:00,350 --> 00:11:58,500
out and understand them better I do

349
00:12:02,690 --> 00:12:00,360
think that some of these questions about

350
00:12:03,769 --> 00:12:02,700
the makeup and the physical material in

351
00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:03,779
our universe and some of those

352
00:12:07,550 --> 00:12:06,060
inconsistencies are definitely going to

353
00:12:09,889 --> 00:12:07,560
be unraveled in the years ahead and I

354
00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:09,899
would guess maybe as close as the next

355
00:12:13,970 --> 00:12:11,640
five to ten years

356
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:13,980
and as relates to the UFO subject to

357
00:12:18,410 --> 00:12:16,560
bring it back the obvious here and what

358
00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:18,420
people would hope but expect would be we

359
00:12:23,690 --> 00:12:21,180
pick up signs of Life potentially and

360
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:23,700
far off planets if we can identify them

361
00:12:27,170 --> 00:12:25,440
and start looking for those kind of

362
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:27,180
biosignatures and atmospheres and

363
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:30,060
whatnot maybe even massive objects

364
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:31,920
orbiting other stars or planets those

365
00:12:35,090 --> 00:12:33,540
kind of Articles pop up now and again

366
00:12:36,769 --> 00:12:35,100
don't they is there something around a

367
00:12:38,210 --> 00:12:36,779
huge star somewhere and that's causing a

368
00:12:39,949 --> 00:12:38,220
dimming of light there was something

369
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:39,959
kind of crept up earlier this year and

370
00:12:44,509 --> 00:12:42,480
went away again is that science fiction

371
00:12:46,970 --> 00:12:44,519
or are we getting closer to science fact

372
00:12:48,829 --> 00:12:46,980
well I like to say Andy that science

373
00:12:50,509 --> 00:12:48,839
fiction steadily over time becomes

374
00:12:52,129 --> 00:12:50,519
science fact you'd look at for instance

375
00:12:53,870 --> 00:12:52,139
predictions that appeared first in

376
00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:53,880
science fiction like Arthur C Clarke the

377
00:12:58,129 --> 00:12:55,500
creation of the Telecommunications

378
00:13:00,530 --> 00:12:58,139
satellite uh you know in fact Clark had

379
00:13:02,990 --> 00:13:00,540
some really forward-thinking ideas about

380
00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:03,000
how commute computers would be connected

381
00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:04,920
in the future and essentially he

382
00:13:08,030 --> 00:13:06,779
described decades before its arrival the

383
00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:08,040
World Wide Web

384
00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:10,980
and to me the kinds of things that we

385
00:13:13,730 --> 00:13:12,600
have long looked at as being science

386
00:13:15,230 --> 00:13:13,740
fiction

387
00:13:17,090 --> 00:13:15,240
maybe not all of them but a lot of them

388
00:13:18,530 --> 00:13:17,100
with time are inevitably going to become

389
00:13:20,690 --> 00:13:18,540
science fact the search for

390
00:13:22,970 --> 00:13:20,700
extraterrestrial life offers one of the

391
00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:22,980
most promising Avenues in that regard as

392
00:13:26,930 --> 00:13:24,300
you mentioned the search for techno

393
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,940
signature is also biosignatures I think

394
00:13:31,009 --> 00:13:28,079
that the difference there just being

395
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:31,019
that uh any kind of extraterrestrial

396
00:13:34,850 --> 00:13:32,880
life potentially May produce bio

397
00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:34,860
signatures that are detectable

398
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:37,260
but the fact that a advanced

399
00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:39,120
civilization somewhere in a distant

400
00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:41,700
region of space and there and and with

401
00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:43,200
their advancement their technological

402
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:44,760
capabilities they're going to produce

403
00:13:48,769 --> 00:13:46,800
signatures that are detectable this is

404
00:13:50,810 --> 00:13:48,779
one of the most promising areas because

405
00:13:52,430 --> 00:13:50,820
those involved in this search will

406
00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:52,440
actually argue and some have in recent

407
00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:54,300
uh published papers that techno

408
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:55,740
signatures are probably going to be more

409
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,600
abundant in truth than the bio

410
00:14:00,650 --> 00:13:59,040
signatures and they don't have to be

411
00:14:02,810 --> 00:14:00,660
beacons that are being shot off toward

412
00:14:04,610 --> 00:14:02,820
Earth they don't have to be overt

413
00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:04,620
signals being broadcast toward us so to

414
00:14:08,210 --> 00:14:05,940
speak they could be things so simple as

415
00:14:09,650 --> 00:14:08,220
the street lights of large cities that

416
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,660
eventually we may be able to detect

417
00:14:14,090 --> 00:14:11,760
thanks to Technologies like those

418
00:14:16,129 --> 00:14:14,100
presented by James Webb they may be

419
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:16,139
climate change on a distant planet that

420
00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:17,700
we're able to detect as a result of

421
00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:19,260
changes in the atmosphere that we would

422
00:14:23,569 --> 00:14:21,180
recognize only with a

423
00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:23,579
Planet whose atmosphere has undergone

424
00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:25,380
the kinds of changes that result from a

425
00:14:29,389 --> 00:14:27,000
you know large population and one that's

426
00:14:31,190 --> 00:14:29,399
producing Technologies so those kind of

427
00:14:33,769 --> 00:14:31,200
things indeed we are going to be more

428
00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:33,779
well equipped to detect but the question

429
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,700
of course on many people's minds when it

430
00:14:39,769 --> 00:14:37,680
comes to the UAP question is and I've

431
00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:39,779
often said this it would be the height

432
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:41,820
of irony with all respect to our city

433
00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:43,500
researchers because this year I got to

434
00:14:47,449 --> 00:14:44,940
finally speak with Seth schostak

435
00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:47,459
director of The seti Institute I've

436
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:50,100
communicated with Jill Tarter a lot of

437
00:14:54,050 --> 00:14:52,440
other researchers involved in that

438
00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:54,060
effort and who have been pioneers and so

439
00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:55,800
I have tremendous respect for the seti

440
00:14:59,629 --> 00:14:57,720
efforts the hunt for techno signatures

441
00:15:02,269 --> 00:14:59,639
and how this is developing but wouldn't

442
00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:02,279
it be the height of irony if in all our

443
00:15:07,009 --> 00:15:04,620
searches for life out there andy if we

444
00:15:08,810 --> 00:15:07,019
found evidence of intelligent life that

445
00:15:10,009 --> 00:15:08,820
was not from Earth right here in our

446
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:10,019
backyard maybe even within our

447
00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:11,279
atmosphere that to me would be

448
00:15:15,410 --> 00:15:13,560
astonishing but it's not impossible it

449
00:15:17,389 --> 00:15:15,420
is indeed at least a possibility however

450
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:17,399
remote that may seem for some when we

451
00:15:21,949 --> 00:15:18,959
look at the UAP question we have to

452
00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:21,959
acknowledge that possibility

453
00:15:26,990 --> 00:15:24,180
well I guessed contributor to the Deep

454
00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:27,000
Leaf in February uh was Mr Christopher

455
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:29,699
melon and he wrote an article at why is

456
00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:32,880
the air force AWOL on the UAP issue I'd

457
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:35,639
love to ask how do you see Chris melon's

458
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:38,399
role in the current landscape of UFOs he

459
00:15:43,250 --> 00:15:40,320
very much seems to be someone whose work

460
00:15:44,750 --> 00:15:43,260
is being done like you say quietly in

461
00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:44,760
the background

462
00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:46,440
yeah that's a good way to characterize

463
00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:48,180
it and I'll just preface this by saying

464
00:15:52,009 --> 00:15:50,339
that is the one of the original

465
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:52,019
co-founders of course and really the

466
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:54,360
Creator in terms of how the site looks

467
00:15:59,449 --> 00:15:56,880
what the general concept is what the

468
00:16:01,850 --> 00:15:59,459
idea was going to be uh the debrief has

469
00:16:04,670 --> 00:16:01,860
always kind of been my baby but I can't

470
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:04,680
wear all the hats all the time and so

471
00:16:08,030 --> 00:16:06,240
when we launched we kind of delegated

472
00:16:10,250 --> 00:16:08,040
the responsibilities I was kind of happy

473
00:16:11,930 --> 00:16:10,260
to do a little of everything Tim was

474
00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:11,940
managing the business side of things MJ

475
00:16:17,329 --> 00:16:13,980
was our editor-in-chief at that time

476
00:16:19,370 --> 00:16:17,339
as his schedule became more busy I

477
00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:19,380
eventually took up the mantle and uh

478
00:16:23,150 --> 00:16:21,540
continued the efforts of editorial as

479
00:16:25,490 --> 00:16:23,160
the new editorian chief of the website

480
00:16:26,990 --> 00:16:25,500
that I actually created and uh I've

481
00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:27,000
enjoyed that although it's a whole lot

482
00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:29,760
of work I say that here to point out

483
00:16:33,410 --> 00:16:31,860
that my first official job as

484
00:16:35,090 --> 00:16:33,420
editor-in-chief was working with Chris

485
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,100
Mellon on that article

486
00:16:39,889 --> 00:16:37,680
and that was quite a landmark entry into

487
00:16:41,449 --> 00:16:39,899
this uh role that I've you know played

488
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:41,459
with the company that uh

489
00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:43,620
Tim and MJ and I have co-founded and

490
00:16:47,810 --> 00:16:45,240
continue with Chris plain and Chrissy

491
00:16:49,490 --> 00:16:47,820
Newton uh and it was a proud moment too

492
00:16:52,009 --> 00:16:49,500
because I have tremendous respect for

493
00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:52,019
Chris Mellon uh although he's best known

494
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:54,120
of course for his work and his

495
00:16:57,769 --> 00:16:55,740
appearance on unidentified the History

496
00:16:59,329 --> 00:16:57,779
Channel program alongside Lou Elizondo

497
00:17:02,269 --> 00:16:59,339
another guy who I have a lot of respect

498
00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:02,279
for uh Chris has a tremendous background

499
00:17:06,110 --> 00:17:04,439
he is he is an intellectual he is a

500
00:17:08,689 --> 00:17:06,120
person who understands policy he is a

501
00:17:10,730 --> 00:17:08,699
person who has advised uh officials from

502
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,740
a position of National Security working

503
00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:12,480
in government and someone who as he will

504
00:17:17,870 --> 00:17:15,720
tell you he has looked as deep as he can

505
00:17:19,370 --> 00:17:17,880
and he's tried to find evidence of any

506
00:17:21,049 --> 00:17:19,380
kind of special programs or any kind of

507
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:21,059
information that the public doesn't

508
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:23,640
generally have access to about UAP

509
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:26,400
and even he from his perspective and

510
00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:28,140
positioning in government and past

511
00:17:31,970 --> 00:17:30,780
involvement will tell you that there is

512
00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:31,980
a genuine mystery here and it's

513
00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:34,440
incumbent upon us to try and study this

514
00:17:38,990 --> 00:17:36,900
and seeing guys who are career officials

515
00:17:41,150 --> 00:17:39,000
like him and Elizondo and others who

516
00:17:42,289 --> 00:17:41,160
I've spoken to who have come out of

517
00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:42,299
government and they come into the

518
00:17:46,370 --> 00:17:44,100
civilian sector and become they kind of

519
00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:46,380
take the role of activists so that they

520
00:17:50,810 --> 00:17:47,880
can point back at government and say hey

521
00:17:52,850 --> 00:17:50,820
look we have questions there has to be

522
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:52,860
more data and we realize that some of

523
00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:54,240
that can't be released but there should

524
00:17:58,730 --> 00:17:56,700
be some that really is not so critical

525
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,740
so potentially damaging to National

526
00:18:03,169 --> 00:18:00,480
Security that if it were discussed more

527
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:03,179
broadly that it would have long-ranging

528
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:05,460
negative impacts on the United States in

529
00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:07,679
our way of life that was the main focus

530
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:09,900
of Chris's article there he's trying to

531
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:12,960
say look we have the United States Air

532
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:15,720
Force they are in charge of commanding

533
00:18:20,690 --> 00:18:18,720
the air protecting our airspace

534
00:18:22,430 --> 00:18:20,700
they have all of these tools at their

535
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,440
disposal which Chris eloquently goes

536
00:18:26,510 --> 00:18:24,240
through I mean admirably goes through

537
00:18:28,370 --> 00:18:26,520
and breaks down in that article and he

538
00:18:30,409 --> 00:18:28,380
says what kind of information are we

539
00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:30,419
collecting on this and based on all of

540
00:18:33,890 --> 00:18:32,100
this data accessible to the Air Force

541
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:33,900
why is the Navy seemingly leading the

542
00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:36,960
charge in the current UAP debate now I

543
00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:38,760
would say that the Air Force has always

544
00:18:43,610 --> 00:18:40,440
been involved and I can't fault them for

545
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,620
not publicly wanting to limit how much

546
00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:45,600
accountability I guess that they feel

547
00:18:49,789 --> 00:18:47,640
like they have to have because for the

548
00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:49,799
longest period in history the Air Force

549
00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:51,660
was in charge of a significant

550
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,360
systematic scientific study of UAP that

551
00:18:57,529 --> 00:18:55,679
was known as Project Blue Book and it

552
00:18:58,909 --> 00:18:57,539
had two predecessors project Grudge and

553
00:19:00,650 --> 00:18:58,919
project sign

554
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,660
some have speculated that there were

555
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:02,160
additional efforts that continued

556
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:03,480
thereafter and it is true by the way

557
00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:04,860
that the Air Force continued to

558
00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:06,600
investigate on a case-for-case basis

559
00:19:11,630 --> 00:19:08,940
when necessary some UAP incidents with

560
00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:11,640
or without any kind of formal program or

561
00:19:16,430 --> 00:19:13,980
reporting structure for that that much

562
00:19:17,630 --> 00:19:16,440
has been released and uh documents

563
00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:17,640
obtained via the Freedom of Information

564
00:19:21,710 --> 00:19:19,260
Act over the years by researchers like

565
00:19:24,890 --> 00:19:21,720
Barry Greenwood Lawrence Fawcett and

566
00:19:27,230 --> 00:19:24,900
many others but all that to say the fact

567
00:19:29,630 --> 00:19:27,240
that they have been involved and have

568
00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:29,640
done so quietly and must obviously

569
00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:31,320
collect information on UAP with all

570
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,240
these tools at their disposal doesn't

571
00:19:38,029 --> 00:19:35,760
help us in terms of bringing to light a

572
00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:38,039
broader understanding of the Air Force's

573
00:19:43,070 --> 00:19:40,980
role in this UAP question and that

574
00:19:45,770 --> 00:19:43,080
aspect of public accountability

575
00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:45,780
uh is exactly what Chris Mellon is

576
00:19:49,970 --> 00:19:47,340
arguing and so again working with him on

577
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,980
that article I mean it was a uh tour de

578
00:19:52,970 --> 00:19:51,660
force I would say and there were a lot

579
00:19:56,330 --> 00:19:52,980
of people behind the scenes who helped

580
00:19:58,190 --> 00:19:56,340
with that some real real researchers uh

581
00:20:00,169 --> 00:19:58,200
and uh that made my job a little easier

582
00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:00,179
as editor but of course it was also in

583
00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:03,660
many ways even more uh nerve-wracking I

584
00:20:05,930 --> 00:20:04,919
guess thinking that the first article

585
00:20:08,690 --> 00:20:05,940
that's going to go out under my

586
00:20:11,090 --> 00:20:08,700
leadership in that department comes from

587
00:20:14,090 --> 00:20:11,100
a guy with the kind of history that uh

588
00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:14,100
melon has but the great outcome was that

589
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,200
that article was of course a hit as we

590
00:20:21,049 --> 00:20:18,480
expected it would be I think Chris made

591
00:20:23,330 --> 00:20:21,059
some great uh points as he told me

592
00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:23,340
privately he shook up some you know

593
00:20:26,810 --> 00:20:25,020
names up there in Washington who took

594
00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:26,820
the subject very seriously and I think

595
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:28,919
in a good way sometimes you need to

596
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:30,179
generate that kind of interest and he

597
00:20:33,409 --> 00:20:31,679
was able to do that I'm just glad that

598
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:33,419
the debrief that our publication was

599
00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:35,460
able to be a vehicle for that message

600
00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:38,220
because the the tone maybe you might

601
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:39,780
even say the structure of that article a

602
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,740
lot of aspects of that were

603
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:42,960
non-traditional and that's something we

604
00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:44,880
pride ourselves in with the debrief as

605
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,440
being a publication that will sometimes

606
00:20:52,130 --> 00:20:48,720
offer commentary that doesn't have to be

607
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:52,140
chopped down to 800 words right and and

608
00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:53,760
the lead has to be Rewritten and then

609
00:20:56,210 --> 00:20:55,080
we've got to assign a correspondent to

610
00:20:57,409 --> 00:20:56,220
help write it and everything and then

611
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:57,419
put it through another round of editing

612
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:59,039
there was tremendous work that went into

613
00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:01,200
that but it was my effort to try and

614
00:21:04,610 --> 00:21:02,700
make sure that Chris's fundamental

615
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,620
message was not hacked away and whittled

616
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,480
down that the sum total of what he was

617
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:08,400
trying to convey would and I would say

618
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:12,480
necessarily so uh had to be conveyed as

619
00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:13,740
it was so anyway it was a great

620
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,900
opportunity and again I I keep in touch

621
00:21:18,650 --> 00:21:17,520
with Chris periodically as a result of

622
00:21:21,169 --> 00:21:18,660
that article we all do there at the

623
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:21,179
debrief and we appreciate his work there

624
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:22,799
was a fascinating breakdown of that

625
00:21:26,450 --> 00:21:24,240
technology the Air Force could

626
00:21:27,770 --> 00:21:26,460
potentially call on very cleverly then

627
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:27,780
he wasn't saying well this is what

628
00:21:30,890 --> 00:21:29,039
they've got and this is what they could

629
00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:30,900
have in terms of UAP data but he just

630
00:21:34,669 --> 00:21:32,580
called out here are some of the known

631
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,679
systems and how they work and how it

632
00:21:37,789 --> 00:21:36,480
could potentially be used and no doubt

633
00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:37,799
that comes from that place of

634
00:21:41,210 --> 00:21:39,240
understanding and knowledge and maybe

635
00:21:43,370 --> 00:21:41,220
some of the things he's seen himself

636
00:21:45,529 --> 00:21:43,380
that he can't talk about openly

637
00:21:48,529 --> 00:21:45,539
however you're right when you say that

638
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:48,539
here we are and Chris shook up some

639
00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:50,880
people in the background but 10 months

640
00:21:54,049 --> 00:21:51,900
down the line

641
00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:54,059
have you heard of any change of stance

642
00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:56,159
from the US Air Force on this because on

643
00:21:59,870 --> 00:21:57,480
the surface it doesn't seem like

644
00:22:01,970 --> 00:21:59,880
anything has changed they're on the

645
00:22:05,870 --> 00:22:01,980
surface no but fortunately there

646
00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:05,880
actually have been some pretty notable

647
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,860
um indications that the Air Force is

648
00:22:11,810 --> 00:22:10,080
back in the game as a matter of fact the

649
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:11,820
very day after we published that article

650
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,120
by Chris Mellon Robert Powell who is one

651
00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:17,280
of the co-founders of an executive board

652
00:22:21,049 --> 00:22:19,140
member of the scientific Coalition for

653
00:22:24,529 --> 00:22:21,059
UAP studies he put together a quick

654
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,539
op-ed that we also published where he

655
00:22:27,470 --> 00:22:26,159
mentioned the fact that he'd spoken to

656
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:27,480
an Air Force serviceman who said we

657
00:22:30,830 --> 00:22:29,640
recently received a briefing where like

658
00:22:31,789 --> 00:22:30,840
back in the old days they called us in

659
00:22:34,490 --> 00:22:31,799
and they said you know we're changing

660
00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:34,500
our reporting structure this is what we

661
00:22:38,810 --> 00:22:37,260
expect people to report oh you're not

662
00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:38,820
going to be penalized or made fun of if

663
00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:40,140
you say that you've seen things we want

664
00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:41,580
to make sure that we're collecting data

665
00:22:45,890 --> 00:22:43,620
and that much was also echoed of course

666
00:22:47,149 --> 00:22:45,900
in the 2021 odni report which we'll get

667
00:22:49,970 --> 00:22:47,159
to here in a moment

668
00:22:52,010 --> 00:22:49,980
but they list the agencies that were

669
00:22:53,390 --> 00:22:52,020
providing data to the UAP task force and

670
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:53,400
of course the U.S Air Force is one of

671
00:22:57,890 --> 00:22:55,440
those they also mentioned and this had

672
00:23:00,169 --> 00:22:57,900
already been uh made public prior to

673
00:23:03,169 --> 00:23:00,179
that report but after the Navy

674
00:23:05,330 --> 00:23:03,179
updated its reporting procedures which I

675
00:23:06,890 --> 00:23:05,340
think occurred in late 2019 they were a

676
00:23:08,990 --> 00:23:06,900
little slower to act but the Air Force

677
00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:09,000
followed suit and did the same thing and

678
00:23:13,730 --> 00:23:11,340
so they they have both updated the way

679
00:23:15,409 --> 00:23:13,740
that they obtained information and the

680
00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:15,419
expectations of service men and women

681
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:17,640
who are having experiences with again

682
00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:19,260
what have now been re-termed and we

683
00:23:22,310 --> 00:23:20,220
should definitely get into this a little

684
00:23:24,409 --> 00:23:22,320
later not just UAP unidentified aerial

685
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:24,419
phenomena but now unidentified anomalous

686
00:23:28,669 --> 00:23:26,880
phenomena so yeah they're definitely

687
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,679
making an effort the air force that is

688
00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:31,440
to sort of match what the Navy has done

689
00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:33,240
in the past and keep in mind

690
00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:34,860
officials I've spoken with when you

691
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,740
reference the Navy's UAP task force have

692
00:23:40,909 --> 00:23:39,120
said you know we don't like when you

693
00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:40,919
call it that because it's always been a

694
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:44,340
you know a a multiple agency

695
00:23:49,730 --> 00:23:47,580
effort and even though it's housed right

696
00:23:51,169 --> 00:23:49,740
it was the the UAP task force fell under

697
00:23:52,909 --> 00:23:51,179
the cognizance of the Department of the

698
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,919
Navy there were multiple agencies that

699
00:23:56,690 --> 00:23:54,480
were contributing data

700
00:23:58,970 --> 00:23:56,700
that was intelligently being reviewed by

701
00:24:02,210 --> 00:23:58,980
that task force and now of course the

702
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,220
dod's own uh all domain anomaly

703
00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:04,559
resolution office further expands that

704
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:07,320
effort having now inherited the job of

705
00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:09,179
the UAP task force that transition has

706
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:10,919
now occurred as we just got a briefing

707
00:24:15,649 --> 00:24:13,799
on Friday about that so last Friday that

708
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:15,659
is so again you know now as that effort

709
00:24:20,210 --> 00:24:17,039
continues under a different organization

710
00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:20,220
within the dod we see an even further

711
00:24:23,810 --> 00:24:21,960
expansion I think and let's not just say

712
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:23,820
that this has always been the Navy the

713
00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:25,320
Air Force has always had some sort of

714
00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:28,020
participation even if they are not as

715
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:29,640
public about it as the Navy has been in

716
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,720
the past

717
00:24:34,490 --> 00:24:32,880
I'll just quote the end of the article

718
00:24:36,649 --> 00:24:34,500
and then call back to it later on with

719
00:24:38,029 --> 00:24:36,659
you like we say are we reaching the

720
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:38,039
limit of the questions We are brave

721
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:39,840
enough to ask or data we are brave

722
00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:41,820
enough to pursue if so will that also

723
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:43,559
limit our further progress as a nation

724
00:24:47,450 --> 00:24:46,080
from that perspective the UAP issue is a

725
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,460
serious test of our intellectual

726
00:24:51,470 --> 00:24:49,440
integrity and courage perhaps even the

727
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:51,480
ultimate test although it's a Stern test

728
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:53,340
I believe our civilian policy makers

729
00:24:57,409 --> 00:24:55,440
have the courage and integrity needed to

730
00:24:59,570 --> 00:24:57,419
rise to the challenge that's when we'll

731
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:59,580
come back to in the coming months

732
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:01,919
so we move on to March and the heavily

733
00:25:07,610 --> 00:25:05,039
redacted version of June 2021's task

734
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:07,620
force report was released credit to John

735
00:25:11,090 --> 00:25:09,600
Greenwald of The Black Vault for for the

736
00:25:14,029 --> 00:25:11,100
diligent work in getting that out there

737
00:25:16,010 --> 00:25:14,039
uh so after a successful foyer of the

738
00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:16,020
report John Greenwald obtained a version

739
00:25:19,370 --> 00:25:18,360
17 pages long the original being Nine

740
00:25:21,470 --> 00:25:19,380
Pages

741
00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:21,480
what do you make first off of the back

742
00:25:25,370 --> 00:25:23,700
and forth we saw online on the length of

743
00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:25,380
these reports some people said it was

744
00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:27,480
several hundred pages

745
00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:29,580
I don't know anywhere near the level of

746
00:25:32,570 --> 00:25:31,140
governmental work that you will or

747
00:25:33,710 --> 00:25:32,580
people like John Greenwald in the work

748
00:25:36,110 --> 00:25:33,720
they do

749
00:25:38,090 --> 00:25:36,120
is it fair to say though that

750
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:38,100
there may have been versions of this

751
00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:40,799
report far far far far far longer than

752
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,600
you would even see released and that

753
00:25:45,890 --> 00:25:44,400
includes official versions that you just

754
00:25:46,850 --> 00:25:45,900
can't for you and you don't get access

755
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:46,860
to

756
00:25:51,169 --> 00:25:49,440
yes and no I think that the classified

757
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:51,179
version of the report that John

758
00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:53,279
Greenwald received was the classified

759
00:25:58,430 --> 00:25:56,700
version of the intelligence assessment

760
00:25:59,810 --> 00:25:58,440
as it was completed and delivered to

761
00:26:01,610 --> 00:25:59,820
Congress

762
00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:01,620
however I don't doubt that there

763
00:26:06,529 --> 00:26:03,480
probably were lengthier

764
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:06,539
files manuscripts uh collections of

765
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:08,240
documents things along those lines

766
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,760
involving intelligence reports perhaps

767
00:26:16,669 --> 00:26:14,640
histories and other kinds of data that

768
00:26:18,769 --> 00:26:16,679
may you know again would probably have

769
00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:18,779
constituted much lengthier collections

770
00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:21,960
in their sum total that information no

771
00:26:26,450 --> 00:26:24,840
doubt classified uh even if not all of

772
00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:26,460
it is classified I would argue that

773
00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:29,220
probably much of it is not and if having

774
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:30,600
gone through the proper clearing

775
00:26:34,370 --> 00:26:32,880
processes it would probably qualify for

776
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,380
review just like the classified report

777
00:26:39,169 --> 00:26:36,720
did but what I view that classified

778
00:26:42,529 --> 00:26:39,179
report is is representing is

779
00:26:44,510 --> 00:26:42,539
the uh summary of all that data right

780
00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:44,520
and that may have this is all

781
00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:46,260
speculation on my part Andy but I mean

782
00:26:49,610 --> 00:26:47,580
that may have led to some of the

783
00:26:51,169 --> 00:26:49,620
confusion where uh people have been

784
00:26:52,490 --> 00:26:51,179
speculating or had perhaps heard through

785
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:52,500
various channels that there was a much

786
00:26:56,330 --> 00:26:54,000
lengthier report yes we'd heard I think

787
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,340
a number around like 75 pages

788
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:58,799
even John Greenwald who obtained that

789
00:27:02,029 --> 00:27:00,000
report through I believe it was a

790
00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:02,039
mandatory declassification review that

791
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:04,020
he actually used to obtain it which is

792
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:05,520
slightly different from the foia but

793
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:07,440
very similar in nature to that process

794
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,779
we can get into that if you like but uh

795
00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:12,000
the uh the classified version of that

796
00:27:15,529 --> 00:27:13,860
report when when he received word

797
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:15,539
initially before he actually got the

798
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:17,039
document but they responded to the

799
00:27:20,210 --> 00:27:18,240
request so that we are going to release

800
00:27:22,669 --> 00:27:20,220
it to you there are an additional few

801
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:22,679
pages I think it was like 16 versus the

802
00:27:26,990 --> 00:27:24,960
nine page report that we originally got

803
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,000
of the unclassified public version that

804
00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:29,279
appeared on the odini website and John

805
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:31,380
responded to that and said wow it's not

806
00:27:35,390 --> 00:27:32,760
much more than the one that you know we

807
00:27:36,590 --> 00:27:35,400
all saw and yet even though a lot of

808
00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:36,600
people said this is a nothing Burger

809
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:38,460
this new page you know paper shows us

810
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:39,840
very little there's so much redacted

811
00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:41,580
that we can't glean anything

812
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:43,380
I beg to differ I think John would agree

813
00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:44,640
by the way and kudos to him for getting

814
00:27:48,049 --> 00:27:46,440
that report out I had him on an episode

815
00:27:49,549 --> 00:27:48,059
of the Micah Hanks program to discuss

816
00:27:51,769 --> 00:27:49,559
this at length and yes we did a feature

817
00:27:53,570 --> 00:27:51,779
there on it at the debrief because I

818
00:27:54,830 --> 00:27:53,580
thought this was significant so a few

819
00:27:56,390 --> 00:27:54,840
things we learned from the classified

820
00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:56,400
version of the report were first of all

821
00:28:00,350 --> 00:27:58,559
for some reason every mention of a term

822
00:28:02,269 --> 00:28:00,360
that the Navy uses for these

823
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:02,279
interruptions that occur where UAP

824
00:28:07,789 --> 00:28:04,559
appear during planned training missions

825
00:28:10,250 --> 00:28:07,799
the terminology they use is rangefeller

826
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:10,260
that was entirely removed from the

827
00:28:13,610 --> 00:28:12,000
public version of the report but once

828
00:28:15,769 --> 00:28:13,620
John went through this mandatory

829
00:28:17,870 --> 00:28:15,779
declassification review process and

830
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:17,880
briefly on that point all that really is

831
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,460
is where you go to an agency and you say

832
00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:22,799
this version of the report was not

833
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,539
released to me through a foia

834
00:28:30,409 --> 00:28:26,880
and so I am requesting that you go

835
00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:30,419
through a review of the data and of

836
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:32,100
course this has to be undertaken by each

837
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:34,080
of the individual agencies with the data

838
00:28:36,649 --> 00:28:35,400
that they provided to that report so

839
00:28:38,390 --> 00:28:36,659
that they can individually clear which

840
00:28:40,909 --> 00:28:38,400
aspects are are available for release

841
00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:40,919
but that mandatory declassification

842
00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:42,840
review causes a complete review of the

843
00:28:45,529 --> 00:28:43,980
document where they can go through and

844
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:45,539
they can find aspects that may actually

845
00:28:49,789 --> 00:28:48,480
be releasable with you know redactions

846
00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:49,799
and where those areas still fall under

847
00:28:54,529 --> 00:28:52,500
those areas of the foia and then that

848
00:28:56,210 --> 00:28:54,539
report May thereafter following that

849
00:28:57,950 --> 00:28:56,220
review be released and that's how he was

850
00:29:00,350 --> 00:28:57,960
able to get that classified version of

851
00:29:01,850 --> 00:29:00,360
the report but I'm kind of baffled that

852
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:01,860
they removed every mention of range

853
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:04,559
Fowler when that entire portion of the

854
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:07,200
of the the report that John got was left

855
00:29:09,950 --> 00:29:08,880
intact I mean it seems to me that that

856
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:09,960
never would have had to have been

857
00:29:14,330 --> 00:29:12,720
removed in the first place and this is

858
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:14,340
one of the main things I think that is

859
00:29:19,549 --> 00:29:16,860
important about the foyer process if

860
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,559
citizens don't actively involve

861
00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:21,120
themselves journalists like me and

862
00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:22,860
researchers like John Greenwald although

863
00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:25,080
many would call him a journalist too and

864
00:29:28,490 --> 00:29:26,940
he does occasionally write original

865
00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:28,500
reporting that he features there at his

866
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:29,940
website The Black Vault

867
00:29:33,769 --> 00:29:32,159
uh if researchers like us do not engage

868
00:29:35,289 --> 00:29:33,779
in the foyer process and other available

869
00:29:37,730 --> 00:29:35,299
access to information

870
00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:37,740
processes that the government provides

871
00:29:42,529 --> 00:29:40,740
to US state and local and federal uh

872
00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:42,539
then we won't always get all the

873
00:29:47,450 --> 00:29:44,820
information that really in truth could

874
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:47,460
potentially be available to us why there

875
00:29:51,889 --> 00:29:49,260
was an entire appendix about the FBI's

876
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:51,899
involvement in supporting the UAP task

877
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:54,299
Force's efforts why that was omitted

878
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:55,919
from the public report seems strange to

879
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,640
me

880
00:30:01,970 --> 00:29:58,799
uh maybe it's not as strange but I think

881
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:01,980
still a little unusual that tables that

882
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:04,320
show the general shapes that are

883
00:30:08,330 --> 00:30:06,480
reported with UAP common shapes that was

884
00:30:09,889 --> 00:30:08,340
completely redacted I can kind of see

885
00:30:11,389 --> 00:30:09,899
why that would be removed but again John

886
00:30:13,610 --> 00:30:11,399
really went after that in his hopes to

887
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:13,620
try and continue to push for the release

888
00:30:17,870 --> 00:30:16,320
of some of that information too uh and

889
00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:17,880
then finally there were summaries of

890
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,980
individual incidents

891
00:30:22,909 --> 00:30:21,600
that occurred in the classified version

892
00:30:24,049 --> 00:30:22,919
of the report that were also completely

893
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:24,059
removed from the version that we

894
00:30:27,470 --> 00:30:26,159
received if you go on the odni website

895
00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:27,480
and read preliminary assessment

896
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:29,340
unidentified aerial phenomena from June

897
00:30:34,490 --> 00:30:31,440
2021 you'll note that they'll say that

898
00:30:35,570 --> 00:30:34,500
there was 144 incidents here are the

899
00:30:37,789 --> 00:30:35,580
general takeaways but they don't

900
00:30:39,409 --> 00:30:37,799
describe any single incident or well

901
00:30:40,730 --> 00:30:39,419
maybe apart from a deflating balloon

902
00:30:42,769 --> 00:30:40,740
that they said that they ruled out of

903
00:30:45,049 --> 00:30:42,779
their data set there's no single

904
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:45,059
incident that's described in that report

905
00:30:48,289 --> 00:30:46,740
and that wasn't the case in the

906
00:30:50,029 --> 00:30:48,299
classified version there were only a few

907
00:30:52,250 --> 00:30:50,039
descriptions maybe more really than we

908
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:52,260
can see due to the redacted portions but

909
00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:53,100
there was definitely a lot more

910
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:55,020
discussed in that report and so the big

911
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,640
takeaways for me were that indeed the

912
00:31:01,490 --> 00:30:58,799
FBI is far more involved than the public

913
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:01,500
was allowed to understand and so as a

914
00:31:05,210 --> 00:31:03,000
federal law enforcement agency that in

915
00:31:07,070 --> 00:31:05,220
itself perhaps is significant we have a

916
00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:07,080
general working idea of what the kinds

917
00:31:10,370 --> 00:31:09,000
of common shapes are of UAP and even if

918
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:10,380
we weren't shown those we know that

919
00:31:13,789 --> 00:31:12,000
government officials have been given

920
00:31:15,230 --> 00:31:13,799
this information and presumably Congress

921
00:31:18,289 --> 00:31:15,240
has been briefed on that

922
00:31:20,210 --> 00:31:18,299
we also know that these uh incursions

923
00:31:21,470 --> 00:31:20,220
into military airspace have a name and

924
00:31:22,909 --> 00:31:21,480
they're commonly referred to as range

925
00:31:24,889 --> 00:31:22,919
Fowlers and that these occur fairly

926
00:31:26,690 --> 00:31:24,899
frequently and indeed that there's been

927
00:31:29,630 --> 00:31:26,700
an analysis of a lot of individual

928
00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:29,640
incidents uh where some of these unusual

929
00:31:33,529 --> 00:31:31,080
characteristics you know ability to

930
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:33,539
remain Aloft for long periods seemingly

931
00:31:37,310 --> 00:31:35,279
irregardless of wind and other kinds of

932
00:31:39,529 --> 00:31:37,320
things that often are difficult to

933
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:39,539
control uh conventional aircraft within

934
00:31:43,850 --> 00:31:42,240
those environments and conditions these

935
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:43,860
UAP seem to be able to do those things

936
00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:45,240
with little regard for those

937
00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:46,860
environmental problems that aviators

938
00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:49,260
face so to me there was quite a bit that

939
00:31:51,470 --> 00:31:50,460
we learned from that classified version

940
00:31:54,409 --> 00:31:51,480
of the report but one of the biggest

941
00:31:55,730 --> 00:31:54,419
takeaways never rely on government to

942
00:31:57,289 --> 00:31:55,740
give you that information in an

943
00:31:58,730 --> 00:31:57,299
unclassified version sometimes you got

944
00:32:00,169 --> 00:31:58,740
to push a little harder so thanks to

945
00:32:02,269 --> 00:32:00,179
John Greenwald and many others who

946
00:32:04,190 --> 00:32:02,279
continue that process our team at the

947
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,200
debrief does the same thing going

948
00:32:08,510 --> 00:32:06,720
through foia and similar processes to

949
00:32:10,909 --> 00:32:08,520
make sure that that information that the

950
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:10,919
public can have access to will have

951
00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:12,120
access to

952
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,980
you've summarized that incredibly well

953
00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:15,600
and I just want to mention the common

954
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:17,340
shapes aspect that was probably the

955
00:32:21,289 --> 00:32:19,440
biggest talking point I saw online and I

956
00:32:22,909 --> 00:32:21,299
can understand why just to get your

957
00:32:24,769 --> 00:32:22,919
quick opinion what do you think was

958
00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:24,779
behind that and why do you think there

959
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:26,279
was such a heavy reduction for those

960
00:32:30,169 --> 00:32:27,840
that haven't seen it or maybe newer to

961
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,179
the topic it was essentially a page that

962
00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:32,640
had common shapes of UAP and they're a

963
00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:35,580
huge black rectangular box now that may

964
00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:37,860
be the common shape of UAP no one's ever

965
00:32:43,970 --> 00:32:39,960
discussed that but I imagine that was

966
00:32:45,529 --> 00:32:43,980
blocking out the view of maybe 5 10 15

967
00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:45,539
or 20.

968
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,020
drawings sketches or actual Stills or

969
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:51,840
photographs of of UAP that have been

970
00:32:56,029 --> 00:32:53,279
encountered what do you think was behind

971
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,039
her well one reason

972
00:33:00,889 --> 00:32:58,559
why they may have redacted all of those

973
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,899
could have had to do with certain

974
00:33:05,230 --> 00:33:02,640
specific categories and I'll give you an

975
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,240
example if let's say they were images

976
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:07,679
either actual still photographs or

977
00:33:11,690 --> 00:33:10,020
perhaps these were drawings but

978
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:11,700
nonetheless they depicted something that

979
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:12,960
the United States government doesn't

980
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,360
recognize but let's say it's actually a

981
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:17,279
foreign surveillance platform let's say

982
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,799
that this is a drone in use by China or

983
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:21,600
some other kind of Technology

984
00:33:25,549 --> 00:33:23,760
we don't recognize that we call it UAP

985
00:33:26,330 --> 00:33:25,559
because we haven't positively identified

986
00:33:30,409 --> 00:33:26,340
it

987
00:33:32,810 --> 00:33:30,419
unclassified or rather that Declassified

988
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:32,820
version of the classified report and

989
00:33:36,889 --> 00:33:34,980
then the Chinese government sees their

990
00:33:39,169 --> 00:33:36,899
drones or whatever in that and they say

991
00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:39,179
oh how did they get that they're not

992
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:40,620
supposed to be able to see that they're

993
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:42,720
detecting us they know we're here

994
00:33:47,210 --> 00:33:45,840
and if we can detect it then we must

995
00:33:49,850 --> 00:33:47,220
have a way that we do that and that

996
00:33:51,529 --> 00:33:49,860
gives China in this case or whomever an

997
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:51,539
idea of how we are detecting their

998
00:33:57,490 --> 00:33:53,880
technology in other words there there

999
00:34:00,409 --> 00:33:57,500
are reasons why even the images

1000
00:34:02,029 --> 00:34:00,419
related to the shape of certain UAP that

1001
00:34:03,230 --> 00:34:02,039
have been encountered might be redacted

1002
00:34:05,289 --> 00:34:03,240
now does that mean that all of them

1003
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:05,299
should be redacted we've already seen

1004
00:34:09,230 --> 00:34:07,679
plenty of data about the shape that some

1005
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:09,240
of these things have most notably the

1006
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,220
famous Tic Tac from the 2004 Nimitz

1007
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:14,159
incident uh we already have some data so

1008
00:34:17,450 --> 00:34:15,960
why not just go ahead and release what

1009
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:17,460
data can be released to the public here

1010
00:34:21,290 --> 00:34:18,960
again I worry

1011
00:34:23,690 --> 00:34:21,300
that there are very logical

1012
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:23,700
down-to-earth Reasons by certain UAP

1013
00:34:28,609 --> 00:34:26,040
shapes and other aspects you know

1014
00:34:31,070 --> 00:34:28,619
typology appearance whatever Behavior

1015
00:34:33,050 --> 00:34:31,080
certain aspects of that side of the

1016
00:34:34,849 --> 00:34:33,060
discussion should be withheld for

1017
00:34:37,550 --> 00:34:34,859
national security reasons but I doubt

1018
00:34:39,649 --> 00:34:37,560
that that would apply to all UAP all

1019
00:34:41,570 --> 00:34:39,659
shapes and that some of that information

1020
00:34:44,990 --> 00:34:41,580
much like some of the information that

1021
00:34:46,010 --> 00:34:45,000
was seemingly inconsequential uh that

1022
00:34:47,450 --> 00:34:46,020
should have been released the first time

1023
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:47,460
around but was completely removed from

1024
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:48,720
the public version of the report and

1025
00:34:52,849 --> 00:34:51,240
then after that review is just handed

1026
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:52,859
away to us we get all this additional

1027
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,960
data that says to me it should have been

1028
00:34:58,190 --> 00:34:56,159
available to us the first time around

1029
00:35:00,410 --> 00:34:58,200
probably some of those shapes and other

1030
00:35:01,970 --> 00:35:00,420
aspects of UAP appearance is something

1031
00:35:03,410 --> 00:35:01,980
that the public couldn't know but they

1032
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:03,420
have kind of done a broad sweeping

1033
00:35:07,849 --> 00:35:06,000
redaction of that based on a few

1034
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,859
outliers that probably are things we

1035
00:35:12,349 --> 00:35:09,839
don't want our enemies to know about

1036
00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:12,359
that's completely Fair let's move on to

1037
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:14,460
April and April there was uh we're going

1038
00:35:18,109 --> 00:35:16,079
to move away from the US you wrote an

1039
00:35:21,050 --> 00:35:18,119
article about the special session that

1040
00:35:23,210 --> 00:35:21,060
was on the cards for June uh in Brazil

1041
00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:23,220
uh Brazil threw its hat into the ring

1042
00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:24,540
for political awareness and

1043
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:26,460
acknowledgment of the UFO issue

1044
00:35:30,589 --> 00:35:28,740
following on from the U.S lead Brazilian

1045
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:30,599
Senators called for a special session to

1046
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:33,240
be held later in the year in June 2022

1047
00:35:37,130 --> 00:35:34,740
but we can talk about this as a whole

1048
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:37,140
now and first off I've got to say much

1049
00:35:40,609 --> 00:35:38,400
of that would not have been possible

1050
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:40,619
without the efforts of researcher AJ

1051
00:35:45,349 --> 00:35:43,200
Javad who sadly passed away only a few

1052
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:45,359
weeks ago after a sudden illness and he

1053
00:35:49,490 --> 00:35:47,040
was due to be on the podcast with me

1054
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,500
days before and days and weeks after

1055
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:51,119
that and I'm very sorry that interview

1056
00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:53,040
never got to happen it was lovely to see

1057
00:35:56,450 --> 00:35:54,359
you speak to in the short conversations

1058
00:35:59,089 --> 00:35:56,460
I had and I know you you got to meet him

1059
00:36:00,650 --> 00:35:59,099
personally as well AJ Michael sorry what

1060
00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:00,660
was what was AJ like when you got to

1061
00:36:04,609 --> 00:36:02,460
meet him well he was wonderful he was

1062
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:04,619
one of the kindest guys that I met not

1063
00:36:08,410 --> 00:36:06,480
only in Brazil but really anywhere he

1064
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:08,420
was a true friend of the UFO Community

1065
00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:11,520
AJ was very kind to me when I was in

1066
00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:13,800
kurichiba earlier this year I hadn't

1067
00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:14,760
known that he was holding his

1068
00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:16,859
International Brazilian UFO Congress

1069
00:36:19,849 --> 00:36:18,540
that very weekend in the very talent I

1070
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:19,859
was staying in and he invited me to come

1071
00:36:23,690 --> 00:36:22,380
be a guest and I got to meet him for the

1072
00:36:25,490 --> 00:36:23,700
first time there but then we went out a

1073
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:25,500
couple of times thereafter and spoke at

1074
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:27,300
length and just you know became very

1075
00:36:30,170 --> 00:36:28,680
fast friends

1076
00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:30,180
he was supposed to also be at the

1077
00:36:33,890 --> 00:36:31,980
international UFO Congress here in the

1078
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:33,900
United States back in October that I

1079
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:36,420
attended as a speaker and I was very sad

1080
00:36:38,990 --> 00:36:37,680
to hear that his health had begun to

1081
00:36:40,190 --> 00:36:39,000
decline at that point and send him a

1082
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,200
message we had a wonderful final

1083
00:36:44,810 --> 00:36:42,240
Exchange

1084
00:36:46,609 --> 00:36:44,820
um and on Thanksgiving day of this year

1085
00:36:48,890 --> 00:36:46,619
I saw he was participating in a live

1086
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,900
stream he had been hospitalized for a

1087
00:36:52,490 --> 00:36:50,400
time before that and I really hoped his

1088
00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:52,500
health was improving but unfortunately

1089
00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:54,180
things went downhill again thereafter

1090
00:36:58,670 --> 00:36:56,220
and I learned very sadly

1091
00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:58,680
about his passing but uh AJ was a true

1092
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,960
friend and uh somebody that will not

1093
00:37:04,910 --> 00:37:02,640
only be missed by guys like you and I

1094
00:37:07,010 --> 00:37:04,920
you know people who knew him but really

1095
00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:07,020
by this community because there were no

1096
00:37:11,930 --> 00:37:09,240
Brazilian researchers that didn't quite

1097
00:37:14,210 --> 00:37:11,940
like or or achieved the volume of

1098
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:14,220
research that AJ did but there are some

1099
00:37:17,930 --> 00:37:15,839
promising Brazilian researchers out

1100
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:17,940
there Ronnie vernette and others who I

1101
00:37:21,290 --> 00:37:19,920
have no doubt will follow in his

1102
00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:21,300
footsteps and who will continue that

1103
00:37:24,410 --> 00:37:22,920
effort Brazil has a long history with

1104
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:24,420
this topic as this story about the

1105
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:27,839
Brazilian Senate uh helps to showcase

1106
00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:30,780
yeah at that special session was one of

1107
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:32,760
AJ's legacies you know that that did

1108
00:37:37,069 --> 00:37:35,280
happen largely in Portuguese a few

1109
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,079
managed to translate large portions of

1110
00:37:40,849 --> 00:37:39,359
that online at the time we've yet to see

1111
00:37:42,770 --> 00:37:40,859
any further action really from this

1112
00:37:45,230 --> 00:37:42,780
given shortly afterwards Brazilian

1113
00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:45,240
elections took over and that was largely

1114
00:37:49,310 --> 00:37:46,680
the the kind of focus in the country

1115
00:37:50,990 --> 00:37:49,320
going forward at the time journalist you

1116
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:51,000
mentioned Ronnie Renee who was very good

1117
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:52,800
in helping me set things up with AJ and

1118
00:37:56,270 --> 00:37:54,240
also he's being on the podcast before

1119
00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:56,280
and we'll be again next year he said

1120
00:38:01,310 --> 00:37:58,680
most senators are skeptical about this

1121
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:01,320
and they're relying heavily on documents

1122
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:03,839
and facts from the United States

1123
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:06,060
any idea since

1124
00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:08,160
what the possibilities may be in this

1125
00:38:13,250 --> 00:38:10,020
picking back up have you got any wind

1126
00:38:15,230 --> 00:38:13,260
that we're going to see real action off

1127
00:38:18,890 --> 00:38:15,240
the back of that special session

1128
00:38:21,710 --> 00:38:18,900
I don't and honestly I do feel like uh

1129
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:21,720
the efforts of that uh special session

1130
00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:23,040
you know again that was really

1131
00:38:28,910 --> 00:38:25,800
spearheaded by AJ javard as he explained

1132
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:28,920
to me uh Senator Eduardo Giroud had uh

1133
00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:31,440
come to him and had expressed some

1134
00:38:36,829 --> 00:38:33,480
interest in holding a special session uh

1135
00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:36,839
Gerald is of course Very sympathetic to

1136
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:39,180
the UAP discussion and although it's

1137
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,560
obviously been influenced by the

1138
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:42,000
developments happening in the in the

1139
00:38:45,470 --> 00:38:43,200
United States I mean there's a much

1140
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:45,480
deeper history going back into Brazilian

1141
00:38:49,609 --> 00:38:47,460
uh history especially with with its Air

1142
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:49,619
Force knitting back to the 1940s and 50s

1143
00:38:53,150 --> 00:38:51,240
they've had the same sorts of

1144
00:38:55,849 --> 00:38:53,160
interactions with this phenomena that we

1145
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:55,859
have here Stateside and I think that

1146
00:38:59,150 --> 00:38:58,079
although they were inspired somewhat by

1147
00:39:01,370 --> 00:38:59,160
what's been happening in the United

1148
00:39:05,150 --> 00:39:01,380
States they wanted to hold this session

1149
00:39:06,349 --> 00:39:05,160
giron and of course Wilson Pickler was

1150
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,359
another former congressman who was

1151
00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:08,640
involved with this AJ Rooney and others

1152
00:39:12,589 --> 00:39:11,160
they wanted to help show the world but

1153
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:12,599
especially Brazilians that you know we

1154
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:13,920
have a long history with this subject

1155
00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:15,660
it's not just the United States

1156
00:39:20,990 --> 00:39:17,820
I haven't seen any additional movement

1157
00:39:22,609 --> 00:39:21,000
with that but I do hope that in the

1158
00:39:24,349 --> 00:39:22,619
years ahead as that we continue to learn

1159
00:39:26,890 --> 00:39:24,359
more here in the United States and other

1160
00:39:29,630 --> 00:39:26,900
world governments continue to explore

1161
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:29,640
this topic and what it means

1162
00:39:33,530 --> 00:39:31,200
that the United States won't be the only

1163
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,540
players in that in that way uh and that

1164
00:39:37,310 --> 00:39:35,520
other countries that are able to become

1165
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:37,320
publicly involved like Brazil have made

1166
00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:38,880
efforts to do and have continued to try

1167
00:39:43,250 --> 00:39:40,740
and do I hope we will continue to see

1168
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:43,260
more of that because I often say this is

1169
00:39:46,130 --> 00:39:44,880
only a culture-bound phenomena the

1170
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,140
English-speaking countries in the

1171
00:39:49,970 --> 00:39:48,000
Western World Experience if that's what

1172
00:39:51,770 --> 00:39:49,980
you think if that's what you believe but

1173
00:39:53,329 --> 00:39:51,780
when you look at the data and again

1174
00:39:54,890 --> 00:39:53,339
those who believe that haven't looked at

1175
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:54,900
that data if you look at the data

1176
00:39:59,450 --> 00:39:57,359
constituting the UAP issue its history

1177
00:40:01,550 --> 00:39:59,460
and the worldly nature of this phenomena

1178
00:40:02,990 --> 00:40:01,560
every government every country has

1179
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:03,000
experienced this this is not something

1180
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:04,680
that only United States citizens have

1181
00:40:08,569 --> 00:40:06,480
experienced the United States military

1182
00:40:10,310 --> 00:40:08,579
encounter this is a worldly phenomenon

1183
00:40:12,290 --> 00:40:10,320
we need to treat it as such

1184
00:40:14,569 --> 00:40:12,300
and around the world I think the

1185
00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:14,579
relationship other cultures have with

1186
00:40:18,530 --> 00:40:17,220
the phenomena is vastly different you

1187
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:18,540
know there are other cultures that

1188
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:20,880
embrace it far far more and that's why

1189
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,560
maybe they don't feel the need to pull

1190
00:40:26,569 --> 00:40:24,960
out cell phones and film flying sources

1191
00:40:27,890 --> 00:40:26,579
in the sky you know it's it's seen as

1192
00:40:29,630 --> 00:40:27,900
something that's far more natural and

1193
00:40:31,870 --> 00:40:29,640
normal than it is Paranormal or

1194
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,880
unnatural uh and those kind of

1195
00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:33,599
documentaries and discussions are

1196
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:34,980
probably few and far between which are

1197
00:40:39,290 --> 00:40:36,839
always really quite disappointing and

1198
00:40:40,910 --> 00:40:39,300
although Elizondo when he left ttsa was

1199
00:40:42,349 --> 00:40:40,920
working on something

1200
00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:42,359
um regarding

1201
00:40:47,690 --> 00:40:45,960
indigenous tribes and they are their

1202
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,700
connection with the the phenomenon

1203
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:49,440
itself and that's probably something

1204
00:40:52,609 --> 00:40:51,119
that's maybe got long gone on the back

1205
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:52,619
burner but maybe when Luke comes back

1206
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:54,240
into the public facing side of things we

1207
00:40:58,670 --> 00:40:55,920
can ask him about that

1208
00:41:00,650 --> 00:40:58,680
um the US did take the reins again on

1209
00:41:03,650 --> 00:41:00,660
the UFO subject and quite uh quite a big

1210
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:03,660
way in May 2022 where uh Congressional

1211
00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:05,760
hearings were held it was the 17th of

1212
00:41:09,829 --> 00:41:07,980
May Micah you wrote the article and

1213
00:41:11,150 --> 00:41:09,839
you're also live blogged it at the time

1214
00:41:12,650 --> 00:41:11,160
as well

1215
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,660
um and a member I've mentioned this was

1216
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:14,160
the same day that the Johnny Depp and

1217
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:16,079
Amber Heard trials in full swing as well

1218
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:18,359
so in my house there was a competing uh

1219
00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:20,220
fight for the TVs my wife went out and

1220
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:21,660
she got the comfy couch in the sitting

1221
00:41:25,250 --> 00:41:23,040
room to watch Johnny Depp and Amber

1222
00:41:26,810 --> 00:41:25,260
Heard battle it out for their riches and

1223
00:41:30,050 --> 00:41:26,820
I was resigned to the kitchen to watch

1224
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:30,060
uh quite historic but is it fair to say

1225
00:41:35,450 --> 00:41:32,700
it's still relatively low-key hearings

1226
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,460
given what was actually discussed you

1227
00:41:39,650 --> 00:41:37,440
know live on on that YouTube channel

1228
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,660
well certainly you know it was funny

1229
00:41:43,250 --> 00:41:41,040
because initially we were going to take

1230
00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:43,260
shifts with the debrief and I got so

1231
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:44,820
into the live blogging I was going to

1232
00:41:49,970 --> 00:41:48,720
take the first shift and then you got to

1233
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:49,980
keep in mind our team is spread out

1234
00:41:52,370 --> 00:41:51,240
throughout different time zones we have

1235
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,380
people on the west coast of the United

1236
00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:54,000
States Tim McMillan's in Germany I'm

1237
00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:56,040
right here in the east coast it made the

1238
00:41:59,930 --> 00:41:57,900
most sense for me to start and by the

1239
00:42:02,510 --> 00:41:59,940
time the public very uh aspect of that

1240
00:42:05,150 --> 00:42:02,520
hearing had concluded I was still going

1241
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:05,160
and uh I remember Tim in the chat room

1242
00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:07,200
saying to me wow Micah the hearing's

1243
00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:09,020
over you just did the whole thing

1244
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,300
so uh and then we got a transcript up on

1245
00:42:19,550 --> 00:42:14,880
the website shortly thereafter

1246
00:42:21,530 --> 00:42:19,560
um yes that was a a fairly peripheral

1247
00:42:23,210 --> 00:42:21,540
view I think of the of the subject I

1248
00:42:24,829 --> 00:42:23,220
mean unfortunately some of the the most

1249
00:42:26,990 --> 00:42:24,839
knowledgeable members of Congress that

1250
00:42:28,609 --> 00:42:27,000
were sitting in that room asking

1251
00:42:29,569 --> 00:42:28,619
questions of Ronald Moultrie and Scott

1252
00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:29,579
Bray

1253
00:42:35,329 --> 00:42:33,240
uh and I'll reference again uh uh uh Mr

1254
00:42:37,849 --> 00:42:35,339
Gallagher of course who had said that he

1255
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:37,859
had only I think uh spent about you know

1256
00:42:41,329 --> 00:42:40,079
five or six hours but he asked some

1257
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:41,339
questions to look deeper into history

1258
00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:44,520
than anybody else did uh that seems to

1259
00:42:49,310 --> 00:42:46,380
really kind of encapsulate the issue I

1260
00:42:50,810 --> 00:42:49,320
mean he was asking some pretty pointed

1261
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:50,820
questions and some pretty specific

1262
00:42:54,890 --> 00:42:52,680
questions about specific cases and

1263
00:42:56,690 --> 00:42:54,900
admitted that he'd only done a few hours

1264
00:42:59,089 --> 00:42:56,700
of research and that's not to attack him

1265
00:43:00,589 --> 00:42:59,099
that's to say it seemed evident to me

1266
00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:00,599
that there was far less research done

1267
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:03,660
probably by other members of uh Congress

1268
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:05,220
that were there present

1269
00:43:09,410 --> 00:43:08,160
and furthermore uh some of the uh

1270
00:43:10,910 --> 00:43:09,420
knowledge of the history of this

1271
00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:10,920
phenomena specifically related to

1272
00:43:14,930 --> 00:43:13,140
nuclear sites and UAP incidents that

1273
00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:14,940
have occurred there that information

1274
00:43:19,309 --> 00:43:16,980
seems to be outside the scope of the

1275
00:43:21,410 --> 00:43:19,319
knowledge that Ronald Moultrie and Scott

1276
00:43:22,490 --> 00:43:21,420
Bray possessed you know as they

1277
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:22,500
explained at that hearing they were

1278
00:43:25,849 --> 00:43:23,760
unfamiliar with some of these incidents

1279
00:43:27,650 --> 00:43:25,859
that Gallaher had been asking about

1280
00:43:29,569 --> 00:43:27,660
so to me

1281
00:43:32,290 --> 00:43:29,579
those hearings were most important just

1282
00:43:35,690 --> 00:43:32,300
because there was an open discussion

1283
00:43:37,849 --> 00:43:35,700
with intelligence officials speaking to

1284
00:43:40,849 --> 00:43:37,859
members of Congress in an open hearing

1285
00:43:42,770 --> 00:43:40,859
that was televised that of course to an

1286
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,780
extent constitutes appeasement of the

1287
00:43:46,670 --> 00:43:44,400
public we the people want this we want

1288
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:46,680
to see our military our intelligence

1289
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:49,200
officials our elected officials engaging

1290
00:43:52,609 --> 00:43:51,359
with one another in responsible dialogue

1291
00:43:54,109 --> 00:43:52,619
about this

1292
00:43:56,930 --> 00:43:54,119
that was good and that and that's the

1293
00:43:58,670 --> 00:43:56,940
purpose that it served but as far as

1294
00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,680
there being depth to what's being

1295
00:44:03,890 --> 00:44:00,780
covered there yeah there was a pretty

1296
00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:03,900
shallow discussion I would say and you

1297
00:44:06,770 --> 00:44:05,220
know I can't say that everybody's going

1298
00:44:09,290 --> 00:44:06,780
to spend as much time Andy as you and I

1299
00:44:11,569 --> 00:44:09,300
do reading about this stuff you know I

1300
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,579
spend most of my spare time

1301
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:13,440
studying the phenomenon writing about

1302
00:44:17,630 --> 00:44:14,819
the phenomenon digging into the history

1303
00:44:19,970 --> 00:44:17,640
reviewing documents historical resources

1304
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:19,980
and that's part of the effort of an

1305
00:44:23,089 --> 00:44:21,240
organization I've recently actually

1306
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:23,099
joined which has been spearheaded by

1307
00:44:26,089 --> 00:44:24,720
David Marl or a dear friend of mine and

1308
00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:26,099
a great researcher it's called The

1309
00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:28,740
National UFO historical records Center

1310
00:44:32,990 --> 00:44:31,200
and you know we that's what we do is we

1311
00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:33,000
try to collect and analyze historical

1312
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,740
information about this

1313
00:44:39,230 --> 00:44:36,720
with that effort we hope to be able to

1314
00:44:42,650 --> 00:44:39,240
provide better resources to those in

1315
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:42,660
government who strangely uh may have to

1316
00:44:46,970 --> 00:44:45,119
rely on civilian data to get a more

1317
00:44:48,349 --> 00:44:46,980
complete picture of this phenomena and

1318
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,359
what it represents even though we

1319
00:44:51,950 --> 00:44:50,400
recommend of course that they pay

1320
00:44:53,450 --> 00:44:51,960
attention to that data that they're

1321
00:44:55,130 --> 00:44:53,460
collecting that the military has access

1322
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:55,140
to that the rest of us here you know we

1323
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:57,119
the people don't get access to yeah

1324
00:45:01,069 --> 00:44:58,319
that's going to be very important but

1325
00:45:02,750 --> 00:45:01,079
don't forget about the civilian data the

1326
00:45:04,010 --> 00:45:02,760
the Congressional hearing showed me that

1327
00:45:06,109 --> 00:45:04,020
although we are moving forward and

1328
00:45:08,569 --> 00:45:06,119
having dialogue a lot of this history

1329
00:45:10,370 --> 00:45:08,579
needs to be better understood at a

1330
00:45:12,050 --> 00:45:10,380
comprehensive view of the phenomenon has

1331
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:12,060
to be attained and that can only be done

1332
00:45:15,710 --> 00:45:13,680
by combining that intelligence that's

1333
00:45:17,870 --> 00:45:15,720
being gathered right now by our military

1334
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:17,880
with that historical data a plethora of

1335
00:45:21,530 --> 00:45:19,920
which is freely available to the public

1336
00:45:23,630 --> 00:45:21,540
if they know where to look

1337
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:23,640
instead of danger people forget that

1338
00:45:27,290 --> 00:45:25,920
these hearings are not the setting that

1339
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:27,300
we're going to see people coming out and

1340
00:45:32,990 --> 00:45:31,140
seeing I am uh maker Hanks and I worked

1341
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,000
on a secret program where we reverse

1342
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:35,280
engineered the warp drive from a flying

1343
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,160
saucer we captured in 1947. that seems

1344
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:39,599
to be what some people think is going to

1345
00:45:43,010 --> 00:45:41,640
happen in these settings and it's not as

1346
00:45:46,010 --> 00:45:43,020
it we're not going to hear that

1347
00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:46,020
especially in a public-facing way do you

1348
00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:47,880
think expectations need to be tempered

1349
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:50,520
as to what hearings like this and future

1350
00:45:54,829 --> 00:45:52,800
hearings that we hopefully get are

1351
00:45:57,230 --> 00:45:54,839
actually going to reveal especially to

1352
00:45:58,910 --> 00:45:57,240
the public oh absolutely you know I've

1353
00:46:00,109 --> 00:45:58,920
always said this to people and this

1354
00:46:02,809 --> 00:46:00,119
comes back around to one of the very

1355
00:46:05,390 --> 00:46:02,819
early uh points that you made we have to

1356
00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:05,400
remember that not all the meaningful

1357
00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:07,800
information not all of the meaningful

1358
00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:10,319
advancements in our knowledge and our

1359
00:46:14,089 --> 00:46:12,000
approaches towards studying UAP are

1360
00:46:16,970 --> 00:46:14,099
going to be the things that reveal

1361
00:46:18,589 --> 00:46:16,980
the kinds of speculations that appeared

1362
00:46:21,050 --> 00:46:18,599
in books about this decades ago which

1363
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:21,060
still informed most of the kind of I

1364
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:22,740
mean I I mean this with no disrespect

1365
00:46:26,809 --> 00:46:24,000
but there are so many people out there

1366
00:46:29,569 --> 00:46:26,819
who are very new to this subject and

1367
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:29,579
they get on Twitter and they you know

1368
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:32,160
start an account and they've read one or

1369
00:46:35,329 --> 00:46:33,780
two books about Roswell after they read

1370
00:46:38,990 --> 00:46:35,339
what appeared in the New York Times in

1371
00:46:40,010 --> 00:46:39,000
2017 and being fairly new to this

1372
00:46:41,809 --> 00:46:40,020
subject

1373
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,819
they consider themselves experts it's

1374
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:43,200
always those kind of people who I get

1375
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:45,359
those DMS from you know who do you work

1376
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:47,760
for the FBI the CIA you know because you

1377
00:46:50,510 --> 00:46:49,200
never talk about this this and this it's

1378
00:46:52,370 --> 00:46:50,520
like the reason I don't talk about those

1379
00:46:53,809 --> 00:46:52,380
things is because had you read enough

1380
00:46:55,210 --> 00:46:53,819
about this subject you would know that

1381
00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:55,220
that's long been discredited

1382
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:57,780
unfortunately a lot of this

1383
00:47:02,809 --> 00:47:01,200
kind of low-hanging fruit leads still in

1384
00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:02,819
aspects of the public dialogue about

1385
00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:05,700
this I can't blame intelligence

1386
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:08,160
officials for wanting to deal with the

1387
00:47:12,349 --> 00:47:10,380
most recent data because one thing about

1388
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:12,359
that most recent data is that it is free

1389
00:47:19,309 --> 00:47:16,079
of so much of that baggage Decades of

1390
00:47:21,290 --> 00:47:19,319
ufology has had right but that's also

1391
00:47:24,410 --> 00:47:21,300
one of the reasons for the again shallow

1392
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:24,420
nature of this discussion and so for for

1393
00:47:28,550 --> 00:47:26,160
Meaningful progress to be made one has

1394
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:28,560
to be able to go through the historical

1395
00:47:33,050 --> 00:47:30,720
data and separate the wheat from the

1396
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:33,060
chef and admittedly that's a difficult

1397
00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:34,800
thing to do so I mean again I mean no

1398
00:47:38,030 --> 00:47:36,420
disrespect to people who simply have not

1399
00:47:40,609 --> 00:47:38,040
had the time to read I mean I've spent

1400
00:47:42,770 --> 00:47:40,619
decades reading about this reading most

1401
00:47:44,930 --> 00:47:42,780
of the major literature from historians

1402
00:47:46,370 --> 00:47:44,940
from scientists from researchers also

1403
00:47:48,829 --> 00:47:46,380
government documentation that's been

1404
00:47:50,450 --> 00:47:48,839
released through the foia it takes a

1405
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:50,460
tremendous amount of time to be able to

1406
00:47:53,210 --> 00:47:51,839
get through all that information and no

1407
00:47:56,329 --> 00:47:53,220
single individual certainly not me

1408
00:47:58,430 --> 00:47:56,339
possesses all of that knowledge so

1409
00:48:00,650 --> 00:47:58,440
although we have a failure fairly

1410
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:00,660
shallow discussion like what we saw in

1411
00:48:05,470 --> 00:48:03,359
May you know I understand the reasons

1412
00:48:07,069 --> 00:48:05,480
for that it's going to take years

1413
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:07,079
comprehensively to be able to go through

1414
00:48:09,950 --> 00:48:08,640
all this data and the Sean Kirkpatrick

1415
00:48:11,809 --> 00:48:09,960
said during his first public appearance

1416
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:11,819
last Friday where they held a media

1417
00:48:16,609 --> 00:48:14,400
Roundtable about the all domain anomaly

1418
00:48:18,589 --> 00:48:16,619
resolution office and its efforts he

1419
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:18,599
said that once but he didn't want to

1420
00:48:22,010 --> 00:48:20,400
really comment on the legislation before

1421
00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:22,020
it passed that's always the pentagon's

1422
00:48:28,430 --> 00:48:24,900
procedure but he implied that once the

1423
00:48:30,349 --> 00:48:28,440
fiscal year 2023 ndaa passes with the

1424
00:48:32,089 --> 00:48:30,359
language that does include a necessity

1425
00:48:33,770 --> 00:48:32,099
for historical review of data going all

1426
00:48:34,849 --> 00:48:33,780
the way back I think to 1945 he said

1427
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:34,859
that's going to be quite a research

1428
00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:37,319
project he's not kidding okay that's

1429
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,300
going to be a whole lot of work so again

1430
00:48:43,069 --> 00:48:41,520
we do need a more comprehensive look but

1431
00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:43,079
I do understand certain aspects that are

1432
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:44,460
influencing why there's so little being

1433
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:45,960
said by government officials right now

1434
00:48:50,210 --> 00:48:48,480
yes that is based on in part limitations

1435
00:48:51,410 --> 00:48:50,220
on their own knowledge but they're also

1436
00:48:52,970 --> 00:48:51,420
trying to deal with the most relevant

1437
00:48:55,250 --> 00:48:52,980
data that they have currently with the

1438
00:48:57,290 --> 00:48:55,260
best technology that is reflective of

1439
00:48:59,630 --> 00:48:57,300
how the phenomenon appears and how the

1440
00:49:00,829 --> 00:48:59,640
military interacts with it currently I

1441
00:49:03,230 --> 00:49:00,839
get it

1442
00:49:05,690 --> 00:49:03,240
and you've cited the debrief you work in

1443
00:49:07,069 --> 00:49:05,700
in silos but you're a team and that

1444
00:49:10,730 --> 00:49:07,079
helps you put together the best end

1445
00:49:12,170 --> 00:49:10,740
product I think the the dod has now had

1446
00:49:13,730 --> 00:49:12,180
various different departments all

1447
00:49:15,050 --> 00:49:13,740
working on this or collecting their own

1448
00:49:17,210 --> 00:49:15,060
data and if that could come together

1449
00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:17,220
that would be beneficial for the overall

1450
00:49:23,210 --> 00:49:20,700
topic and Reporting in June NASA finally

1451
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:23,220
announced plans to study the UAP topic

1452
00:49:28,190 --> 00:49:25,920
many would I like the old acronym never

1453
00:49:30,109 --> 00:49:28,200
a straight answer many would say from a

1454
00:49:32,030 --> 00:49:30,119
conspiratorial point of view and

1455
00:49:33,890 --> 00:49:32,040
probably quite fairly you've got some

1456
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:33,900
Moon uh pictures in the background there

1457
00:49:38,210 --> 00:49:36,240
and whatnot that NASA probably knows a

1458
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:38,220
lot more about this than they let on

1459
00:49:42,829 --> 00:49:40,319
I've always caveat of that with the

1460
00:49:44,569 --> 00:49:42,839
people probably have involved with NASA

1461
00:49:47,390 --> 00:49:44,579
over the decades but NASA is not a

1462
00:49:49,970 --> 00:49:47,400
person NASA is a big organization of

1463
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:49,980
offices and buildings and servers and

1464
00:49:54,290 --> 00:49:51,839
and workers and people who go to their

1465
00:49:56,809 --> 00:49:54,300
jobs 95 just like everyone else

1466
00:49:58,609 --> 00:49:56,819
I would say that the announcement was a

1467
00:50:00,829 --> 00:49:58,619
welcome one you mentioned Bill Nelson

1468
00:50:02,809 --> 00:50:00,839
the NASA administrator who is uh

1469
00:50:04,910 --> 00:50:02,819
sympathetic to the UFO cause given his

1470
00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:04,920
previous political affiliations he is

1471
00:50:08,829 --> 00:50:07,140
someone who has been briefed some of

1472
00:50:12,410 --> 00:50:08,839
these fantastic briefings we hear about

1473
00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:12,420
and uh he has a real interest in in

1474
00:50:16,370 --> 00:50:14,700
pursuing the UFO discussion so he seemed

1475
00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:16,380
to be a good guy to getting at the the

1476
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:19,260
Helm of NASA the study announced was a

1477
00:50:23,089 --> 00:50:21,780
small budget uh very much and if you

1478
00:50:25,730 --> 00:50:23,099
read the article it's not a hundred

1479
00:50:28,550 --> 00:50:25,740
thousand dollars it's up to it's from

1480
00:50:30,109 --> 00:50:28,560
tens to a hundred thousand dollars is

1481
00:50:31,790 --> 00:50:30,119
actually the quote from the article as

1482
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:31,800
well so it may not even be as much as

1483
00:50:35,089 --> 00:50:33,599
that but it's a group that's being put

1484
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:35,099
together to look at how from a

1485
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:36,960
scientific perspective

1486
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:39,300
what can be studied and how is it best

1487
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,440
studied

1488
00:50:44,510 --> 00:50:42,960
um not many UFO folks involved in the

1489
00:50:46,609 --> 00:50:44,520
study itself which I think is a good

1490
00:50:48,829 --> 00:50:46,619
thing what's your take on NASA getting

1491
00:50:50,750 --> 00:50:48,839
involved so publicly

1492
00:50:52,609 --> 00:50:50,760
and would you say that this is going to

1493
00:50:54,530 --> 00:50:52,619
again be something that bears fruit past

1494
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,540
the initial study phase

1495
00:50:59,329 --> 00:50:57,119
yes so a few quick points on this

1496
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:59,339
obviously NASA becoming involved has a

1497
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,720
lot to do with a couple of things the

1498
00:51:05,089 --> 00:51:02,400
public interest in UAP that's currently

1499
00:51:06,349 --> 00:51:05,099
underway and NASA announced uh well

1500
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,359
first of all they put up a fact page

1501
00:51:12,589 --> 00:51:08,880
about UAP the same afternoon I believe

1502
00:51:14,270 --> 00:51:12,599
that the odni report dropped in 2021 so

1503
00:51:16,010 --> 00:51:14,280
it is reflective of the public interest

1504
00:51:18,650 --> 00:51:16,020
and also the renewed government interest

1505
00:51:20,690 --> 00:51:18,660
in analyzing this phenomena

1506
00:51:22,130 --> 00:51:20,700
but it also is reflective I think of

1507
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,140
NASA's leadership and again I got to

1508
00:51:27,290 --> 00:51:24,240
commend Bill Nelson that guy is not only

1509
00:51:30,349 --> 00:51:27,300
just a Powerhouse in terms of how he is

1510
00:51:32,270 --> 00:51:30,359
uh engaged with NASA and its Mission but

1511
00:51:34,849 --> 00:51:32,280
he is someone who

1512
00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:34,859
rather than reflecting the kind of older

1513
00:51:39,230 --> 00:51:37,800
ideas you know past leadership with NASA

1514
00:51:40,970 --> 00:51:39,240
there there have been documents and

1515
00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:40,980
historical resources made available to

1516
00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:42,780
the public over the years

1517
00:51:47,870 --> 00:51:45,180
that show that past administrators of

1518
00:51:49,730 --> 00:51:47,880
NASA have at times been not so much

1519
00:51:51,470 --> 00:51:49,740
resist resistant I think as they have

1520
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:51,480
been cautious about getting involved

1521
00:51:56,510 --> 00:51:54,480
with the UAP subject directly

1522
00:51:58,430 --> 00:51:56,520
sometimes their level of involvement

1523
00:52:00,170 --> 00:51:58,440
seems to also be reflective of a lack of

1524
00:52:01,970 --> 00:52:00,180
Interest or knowledge in this subject

1525
00:52:03,530 --> 00:52:01,980
and Bill Nelson is not like that he is

1526
00:52:06,349 --> 00:52:03,540
somebody who has been very open he has

1527
00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:06,359
gone I mean pursues discussions with

1528
00:52:09,890 --> 00:52:08,280
some of these Navy pilots and other

1529
00:52:11,809 --> 00:52:09,900
personnel with our military who've had

1530
00:52:13,730 --> 00:52:11,819
personal experiences

1531
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:13,740
uh I would call him a man of the people

1532
00:52:19,609 --> 00:52:17,040
I'm a big fan of Bill Nelson Bill Nelson

1533
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:19,619
Bill Nelson if I can speak here I'm a

1534
00:52:24,829 --> 00:52:21,839
huge fan of big uh let me try it again

1535
00:52:27,470 --> 00:52:24,839
I'm a huge fan of Bill Nelson and uh he

1536
00:52:29,150 --> 00:52:27,480
is just somebody who uh I think we need

1537
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:29,160
that kind of leadership not just in NASA

1538
00:52:32,990 --> 00:52:30,720
with our space program but we need that

1539
00:52:35,870 --> 00:52:33,000
uh all across the board in government

1540
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:35,880
now that said those are the things I

1541
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:37,200
think that are driving a NASA

1542
00:52:40,910 --> 00:52:39,119
investigation into this topic a few

1543
00:52:42,349 --> 00:52:40,920
points that should be raised about this

1544
00:52:44,809 --> 00:52:42,359
first NASA says they're not going to be

1545
00:52:45,890 --> 00:52:44,819
looking at classified data they're not

1546
00:52:48,530 --> 00:52:45,900
going to be looking at any kind of

1547
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,540
information that the public shouldn't

1548
00:52:52,609 --> 00:52:50,640
have access to or know about

1549
00:52:53,870 --> 00:52:52,619
there aren't any UFO researchers who are

1550
00:52:55,609 --> 00:52:53,880
involved

1551
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:55,619
this is something that I think will be

1552
00:52:59,450 --> 00:52:57,119
helpful

1553
00:53:01,490 --> 00:52:59,460
but I fear that on the other side of

1554
00:53:03,890 --> 00:53:01,500
that they're going to also be certain

1555
00:53:05,329 --> 00:53:03,900
limitations that those who are not

1556
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:05,339
necessarily

1557
00:53:09,049 --> 00:53:07,440
oriented toward the subject or have a

1558
00:53:10,670 --> 00:53:09,059
past involvement with it they're going

1559
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,680
to be limitations in terms of how much

1560
00:53:13,250 --> 00:53:12,000
because there's a lot of data and this

1561
00:53:14,930 --> 00:53:13,260
is what the point I was making earlier

1562
00:53:15,950 --> 00:53:14,940
there's a lot of data to have to sift

1563
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,960
through and especially if they're only

1564
00:53:18,829 --> 00:53:17,280
going with that that's already available

1565
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,839
to the public there's a tremendous

1566
00:53:22,250 --> 00:53:20,640
amount they've only got a few months

1567
00:53:24,650 --> 00:53:22,260
very limited funding

1568
00:53:26,809 --> 00:53:24,660
so I'm glad that there are certain

1569
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:26,819
scientific advisors as I understand it

1570
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:28,140
to this effort who are very

1571
00:53:31,069 --> 00:53:29,520
knowledgeable on this subject some of

1572
00:53:33,290 --> 00:53:31,079
these advisors are people I know from

1573
00:53:35,569 --> 00:53:33,300
what I've heard and I think that it's

1574
00:53:38,170 --> 00:53:35,579
going to be very helpful in in directing

1575
00:53:40,490 --> 00:53:38,180
those who are analyzing this information

1576
00:53:44,750 --> 00:53:40,500
toward looking at the best and the most

1577
00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:44,760
relevant data uh that uh to me indicates

1578
00:53:48,890 --> 00:53:47,160
a lot of promise with NASA's study

1579
00:53:50,750 --> 00:53:48,900
because a if they aren't looking at

1580
00:53:52,250 --> 00:53:50,760
classified information but they are you

1581
00:53:55,069 --> 00:53:52,260
know at least getting some assistance in

1582
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:55,079
terms of what data they are looking at

1583
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,839
they're likely to do a comprehensive

1584
00:54:00,890 --> 00:53:59,280
analysis of what I think would be some

1585
00:54:03,049 --> 00:54:00,900
of the most reliable information we have

1586
00:54:04,849 --> 00:54:03,059
at our disposal distill that down to its

1587
00:54:06,890 --> 00:54:04,859
finest Essence and although it may not

1588
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:06,900
be different what they determine from

1589
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,880
what past civilian Studies have resulted

1590
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:10,319
in you know what determinations have

1591
00:54:14,809 --> 00:54:12,240
been made by organizations like SCU

1592
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,819
mufon maybe and others what they will do

1593
00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:16,800
is as a government agency with

1594
00:54:21,230 --> 00:54:18,180
Government funding and with the

1595
00:54:24,890 --> 00:54:21,240
authoritative capacity that is imbued

1596
00:54:26,510 --> 00:54:24,900
within a NASA an Ori or a NSA or a Navy

1597
00:54:27,650 --> 00:54:26,520
or an Air Force you know when you have a

1598
00:54:29,809 --> 00:54:27,660
government agency that's going to

1599
00:54:31,549 --> 00:54:29,819
produce this information and with the

1600
00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:31,559
kind of historical efforts toward

1601
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:33,420
transparency that NASA has always said

1602
00:54:36,170 --> 00:54:34,800
that they Champion I know there are some

1603
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:36,180
who are more conspiratorial about that

1604
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:37,440
and don't believe that NASA is always as

1605
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:38,880
forthcoming as they say they try to be

1606
00:54:43,130 --> 00:54:41,520
but taking them for their word they are

1607
00:54:45,290 --> 00:54:43,140
committed to transparency and maybe more

1608
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:45,300
so than other branches of government all

1609
00:54:50,809 --> 00:54:48,720
those factors to me certainly lend to a

1610
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:50,819
degree of promise and I have maybe not

1611
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:52,559
High Hopes I'm it's always measured

1612
00:54:56,450 --> 00:54:54,000
hopes when it comes to government Andy

1613
00:54:58,490 --> 00:54:56,460
but I do have hopes that this report

1614
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:58,500
when they released this and they say the

1615
00:55:01,309 --> 00:54:59,760
whole thing freely available to the

1616
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:01,319
public and since there's no classified

1617
00:55:04,670 --> 00:55:02,880
data going into it nothing should be

1618
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:04,680
classified we're going to get to read

1619
00:55:09,530 --> 00:55:07,680
the full results of NASA's study that's

1620
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:09,540
probably going to be a small chip away

1621
00:55:13,130 --> 00:55:11,819
at the large block but I hope it's a

1622
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:13,140
promising one I hope it's something that

1623
00:55:17,930 --> 00:55:16,079
encourages further study where this to

1624
00:55:20,210 --> 00:55:17,940
me could be very dangerous as if NASA

1625
00:55:21,950 --> 00:55:20,220
looks at all this data and maybe they

1626
00:55:22,849 --> 00:55:21,960
don't have access to all the best data

1627
00:55:24,530 --> 00:55:22,859
because they weren't looking at

1628
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:24,540
classified information and they conclude

1629
00:55:26,990 --> 00:55:25,440
well

1630
00:55:28,849 --> 00:55:27,000
you know

1631
00:55:30,589 --> 00:55:28,859
we didn't find anything here and we just

1632
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:30,599
don't really see any reason to continue

1633
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:32,400
scientific study of this if that's what

1634
00:55:35,870 --> 00:55:34,380
happens there's historical precedent for

1635
00:55:38,089 --> 00:55:35,880
what the outcome could be we could look

1636
00:55:40,010 --> 00:55:38,099
back to the 1960s with the Condon

1637
00:55:41,870 --> 00:55:40,020
committee the University of Colorado UFO

1638
00:55:43,549 --> 00:55:41,880
project that's what happened the last

1639
00:55:45,770 --> 00:55:43,559
time a bunch of scientists got involved

1640
00:55:47,690 --> 00:55:45,780
in study of UAP data and concluded

1641
00:55:49,370 --> 00:55:47,700
there's nothing much to see here

1642
00:55:50,690 --> 00:55:49,380
you know I mean the media got out of the

1643
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:50,700
game the military got out of the game

1644
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:52,319
Project Blue Book literally was closed

1645
00:55:57,650 --> 00:55:55,200
within a year so I hope with knowledge

1646
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,660
of that history that NASA recognizes to

1647
00:56:00,589 --> 00:55:59,280
a degree the responsibility they have

1648
00:56:03,109 --> 00:56:00,599
and how they present their

1649
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:03,119
determinations and what they draw from

1650
00:56:06,530 --> 00:56:05,040
the data that they observe because that

1651
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,540
can have tremendous cultural and even

1652
00:56:10,849 --> 00:56:08,880
political implications

1653
00:56:13,309 --> 00:56:10,859
let's open the door just for a moment to

1654
00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:13,319
the speculation station here sure if I

1655
00:56:18,349 --> 00:56:15,839
was part of that team with any incliner

1656
00:56:21,230 --> 00:56:18,359
interest in the UFO subject and we're on

1657
00:56:24,049 --> 00:56:21,240
a small budget I would open up YouTube I

1658
00:56:26,270 --> 00:56:24,059
would type in NASA UFO and I would see

1659
00:56:28,010 --> 00:56:26,280
hundreds and thousands of videos of all

1660
00:56:30,589 --> 00:56:28,020
sorts of stuff many of it and without

1661
00:56:32,089 --> 00:56:30,599
ice crystals particles space debris

1662
00:56:34,609 --> 00:56:32,099
satellites flying by in the background

1663
00:56:37,910 --> 00:56:34,619
however you can't deny there are some

1664
00:56:39,650 --> 00:56:37,920
interesting bits of footage on there and

1665
00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:39,660
stuff flies about now if I can go and

1666
00:56:43,910 --> 00:56:41,940
find some of the best ones surely there

1667
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:43,920
is an archive with the extended footage

1668
00:56:48,290 --> 00:56:45,839
in NASA and you just have to go down the

1669
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:48,300
hallway open the door and say I need STS

1670
00:56:52,849 --> 00:56:50,880
whatever it was from this date something

1671
00:56:54,890 --> 00:56:52,859
flew by you cut the feed off was there

1672
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:54,900
anything here to see and surely there

1673
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,880
would be some interesting footage just

1674
00:57:00,770 --> 00:56:59,040
to look at before you even dive into any

1675
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:00,780
data

1676
00:57:06,589 --> 00:57:03,599
I would think so I have had some limited

1677
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:06,599
correspondence with engineers and people

1678
00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:08,160
who have had association with the Space

1679
00:57:13,010 --> 00:57:10,440
Program over the years they would not

1680
00:57:14,569 --> 00:57:13,020
want their names named publicly but

1681
00:57:16,130 --> 00:57:14,579
they've never ever conveyed any

1682
00:57:17,930 --> 00:57:16,140
information to me that you know

1683
00:57:19,790 --> 00:57:17,940
shouldn't be available to the public in

1684
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:19,800
fact all that is for those who know

1685
00:57:22,670 --> 00:57:21,359
where to look and if not directly

1686
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:22,680
accessible it should be accessible

1687
00:57:25,970 --> 00:57:24,000
through foia

1688
00:57:27,589 --> 00:57:25,980
but that said

1689
00:57:28,970 --> 00:57:27,599
although I've never gotten any

1690
00:57:30,530 --> 00:57:28,980
indication that people have said that

1691
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:30,540
there's a big Smoking Gun

1692
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:32,640
there are from time to time objects of

1693
00:57:36,589 --> 00:57:35,460
interest and more often than not these

1694
00:57:38,930 --> 00:57:36,599
have already come to the attention of

1695
00:57:41,630 --> 00:57:38,940
the public because of those Sky Watchers

1696
00:57:43,130 --> 00:57:41,640
who you know have their webcams tuned on

1697
00:57:44,750 --> 00:57:43,140
the space station and they are able to

1698
00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:44,760
observe those live feeds that are being

1699
00:57:49,849 --> 00:57:46,740
produced by cameras uh up there on our

1700
00:57:50,990 --> 00:57:49,859
orbital spacecraft and uh yeah there

1701
00:57:52,430 --> 00:57:51,000
have been some interesting videos that

1702
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:52,440
have emerged over the years you know one

1703
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,520
really quickly that comes to mind

1704
00:57:56,569 --> 00:57:54,960
everybody talks about the famous one I

1705
00:57:58,430 --> 00:57:56,579
think you were referencing the SDS what

1706
00:57:59,809 --> 00:57:58,440
was it uh I don't remember the exact

1707
00:58:01,250 --> 00:57:59,819
name of the mission but I mean there's

1708
00:58:02,510 --> 00:58:01,260
an object that's moving along you see a

1709
00:58:05,150 --> 00:58:02,520
flash of light and then something just

1710
00:58:06,890 --> 00:58:05,160
shoots off in the same direction as

1711
00:58:08,450 --> 00:58:06,900
though like a missile had been fired at

1712
00:58:10,790 --> 00:58:08,460
some sort of an object and it Dodges

1713
00:58:12,049 --> 00:58:10,800
yeah now the conventional explanation

1714
00:58:14,089 --> 00:58:12,059
for this is that this was one of the

1715
00:58:15,710 --> 00:58:14,099
thrusters on the space station itself or

1716
00:58:18,349 --> 00:58:15,720
rather on the spacecraft that was the uh

1717
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:18,359
that was not the space station but in

1718
00:58:22,430 --> 00:58:19,920
this instance that one of the thrusters

1719
00:58:23,930 --> 00:58:22,440
actually fires it causes the movement of

1720
00:58:25,549 --> 00:58:23,940
a Ice Crystal

1721
00:58:27,290 --> 00:58:25,559
but there have been alternative

1722
00:58:28,130 --> 00:58:27,300
interpretations of that video too I

1723
00:58:30,589 --> 00:58:28,140
couldn't tell you what that one

1724
00:58:32,750 --> 00:58:30,599
represents uh it certainly was very

1725
00:58:34,430 --> 00:58:32,760
controversial when it first aired but

1726
00:58:36,049 --> 00:58:34,440
the point being videos like that have

1727
00:58:37,490 --> 00:58:36,059
already been available to the public and

1728
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:37,500
yeah like you said NASA should be able

1729
00:58:41,450 --> 00:58:39,780
to go back and and re-examine those and

1730
00:58:44,410 --> 00:58:41,460
see if any of these actually do warrant

1731
00:58:47,809 --> 00:58:44,420
further attention and alternative uh

1732
00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:47,819
interpretation now it was one that aired

1733
00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:49,920
a few years back where there was

1734
00:58:53,450 --> 00:58:51,480
actually an official NASA spokesperson

1735
00:58:55,849 --> 00:58:53,460
who talked about this and it you know

1736
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:55,859
got a lot of media coverage I even found

1737
00:58:59,809 --> 00:58:58,079
the same video again many years later

1738
00:59:01,970 --> 00:58:59,819
off to see if I can dig that back up but

1739
00:59:03,230 --> 00:59:01,980
there appear to be three objects that

1740
00:59:06,289 --> 00:59:03,240
were moving

1741
00:59:07,609 --> 00:59:06,299
uh in formation that were I think in

1742
00:59:09,770 --> 00:59:07,619
this instance they actually were filmed

1743
00:59:11,569 --> 00:59:09,780
from the space station and that's one of

1744
00:59:13,329 --> 00:59:11,579
the Horizon where you see stuff come

1745
00:59:15,289 --> 00:59:13,339
over

1746
00:59:16,849 --> 00:59:15,299
it's not that one no this is something

1747
00:59:17,870 --> 00:59:16,859
where there's a the camera is pointed

1748
00:59:19,609 --> 00:59:17,880
down toward the Earth and you just

1749
00:59:21,650 --> 00:59:19,619
clearly see three small objects moving

1750
00:59:24,049 --> 00:59:21,660
in formation and almost kind of turning

1751
00:59:25,970 --> 00:59:24,059
as they're moving and NASA official

1752
00:59:27,890 --> 00:59:25,980
whose name slips my mind was asked about

1753
00:59:29,690 --> 00:59:27,900
this uh during a press conference and he

1754
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:29,700
said we don't know what those objects

1755
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:31,140
are they appear pretty frequently but

1756
00:59:34,250 --> 00:59:32,400
they don't seem to pose any kind of a

1757
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:34,260
threat and so we're not you know very

1758
00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:36,000
concerned about them but he acknowledged

1759
00:59:39,650 --> 00:59:37,440
I mean those things whatever they are

1760
00:59:41,870 --> 00:59:39,660
show up all the time now that could have

1761
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:41,880
meant ice crystals that could have meant

1762
00:59:45,410 --> 00:59:44,160
orbital debris from past space missions

1763
00:59:47,390 --> 00:59:45,420
who knows

1764
00:59:50,270 --> 00:59:47,400
we always have to be very careful about

1765
00:59:53,450 --> 00:59:50,280
allowing our minds to draw the dot or

1766
00:59:54,829 --> 00:59:53,460
connect the dots right but to me when

1767
00:59:56,210 --> 00:59:54,839
I'm seeing those three objects moving in

1768
00:59:58,609 --> 00:59:56,220
formation that appear to maintain a

1769
01:00:00,049 --> 00:59:58,619
triangular shape that's suggestive of

1770
01:00:02,510 --> 01:00:00,059
there being some sort of continuity

1771
01:00:04,430 --> 01:00:02,520
between their movement and that much

1772
01:00:06,170 --> 01:00:04,440
even seem to be acknowledged in that

1773
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,180
brief clip that was televised years back

1774
01:00:09,710 --> 01:00:08,400
now again those kinds of videos have

1775
01:00:11,870 --> 01:00:09,720
been showing up for years but like you

1776
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:11,880
say to your point Andy NASA should be

1777
01:00:14,569 --> 01:00:12,960
able to go back look at all those things

1778
01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:14,579
and say within the context of what we

1779
01:00:18,349 --> 01:00:16,260
now know what the dod's mission with

1780
01:00:20,809 --> 01:00:18,359
arrow is with the UAP task force report

1781
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:20,819
from 2021 seemed to indicate and with

1782
01:00:23,690 --> 01:00:22,079
all the additional data that's being

1783
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:23,700
collected by space based systems some of

1784
01:00:28,130 --> 01:00:25,680
which involving intelligence don't

1785
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:28,140
involve NASA apart from NASA's role in

1786
01:00:31,789 --> 01:00:29,760
helping get those satellites and systems

1787
01:00:33,470 --> 01:00:31,799
into orbit for other agencies that use

1788
01:00:36,109 --> 01:00:33,480
them National geospatial Intelligence

1789
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:36,119
you know spacecom what have you with the

1790
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:37,440
data that's available to NASA they

1791
01:00:39,770 --> 01:00:38,880
should be able to conduct an independent

1792
01:00:41,329 --> 01:00:39,780
review

1793
01:00:43,010 --> 01:00:41,339
and look at that kind of data that's

1794
01:00:44,750 --> 01:00:43,020
stuff that they and their own systems

1795
01:00:47,150 --> 01:00:44,760
have connect have collected over the

1796
01:00:49,730 --> 01:00:47,160
years that in addition to data apart

1797
01:00:51,650 --> 01:00:49,740
from NASA's own systems uh would

1798
01:00:54,770 --> 01:00:51,660
probably give a very comprehensive view

1799
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:54,780
of UAP their characteristics Dynamics

1800
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:56,880
and and would help those analysts

1801
01:01:00,049 --> 01:00:58,559
involved with NASA's study determine

1802
01:01:02,510 --> 01:01:00,059
whether or not there is a there I

1803
01:01:04,250 --> 01:01:02,520
strongly suspect there is but again it

1804
01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:04,260
really relies on whether or not they are

1805
01:01:08,329 --> 01:01:06,119
going to review that data and when they

1806
01:01:10,010 --> 01:01:08,339
finish this study if we look at the data

1807
01:01:11,150 --> 01:01:10,020
and we look at their conclusions and

1808
01:01:12,890 --> 01:01:11,160
there's no mention of any of those

1809
01:01:15,530 --> 01:01:12,900
videos it's going to be rather strange

1810
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,540
to me uh we're gonna have to see maybe

1811
01:01:18,589 --> 01:01:17,280
in the forthcoming report not so much

1812
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:18,599
what they say but what they have left

1813
01:01:22,490 --> 01:01:20,400
out I think that's going to say a whole

1814
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:22,500
lot about their analysis well I've

1815
01:01:25,609 --> 01:01:24,000
already been in touch with one of the

1816
01:01:26,930 --> 01:01:25,619
people involved in the study and they've

1817
01:01:28,430 --> 01:01:26,940
agreed to come on once the study is

1818
01:01:31,250 --> 01:01:28,440
complete so hopefully I can put that

1819
01:01:34,250 --> 01:01:31,260
question to them as well very good the

1820
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:34,260
yeah I I spoke to Anthony lepay who is a

1821
01:01:38,210 --> 01:01:36,480
producer of the unidentified series back

1822
01:01:39,650 --> 01:01:38,220
for one of the first interviews on the

1823
01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:39,660
podcast and he mentioned that one of the

1824
01:01:43,250 --> 01:01:41,520
things that didn't make it into season

1825
01:01:45,410 --> 01:01:43,260
two that he wished had but they didn't

1826
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:45,420
have enough that they could put out was

1827
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:48,240
like you see individuals from NASA who

1828
01:01:52,010 --> 01:01:50,400
had been in touch with them and that was

1829
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:52,020
something he wished he could have put

1830
01:01:55,789 --> 01:01:54,240
into the show but it just didn't fit and

1831
01:01:57,710 --> 01:01:55,799
again maybe that's a shame we never saw

1832
01:01:59,450 --> 01:01:57,720
season three of unidentified to see some

1833
01:02:01,309 --> 01:01:59,460
of that material as well and also to

1834
01:02:02,270 --> 01:02:01,319
caveat we're not saying that any of

1835
01:02:04,309 --> 01:02:02,280
those

1836
01:02:06,589 --> 01:02:04,319
objects are necessarily A non-human

1837
01:02:07,849 --> 01:02:06,599
intelligence the the US themselves may

1838
01:02:09,289 --> 01:02:07,859
look at that and say oh that's something

1839
01:02:10,849 --> 01:02:09,299
otherwise yeah you don't want to see any

1840
01:02:13,370 --> 01:02:10,859
more of that that's fine or it could be

1841
01:02:14,809 --> 01:02:13,380
that for an adversarial Tech but there

1842
01:02:16,430 --> 01:02:14,819
are some interesting things that show up

1843
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:16,440
on that NASA footage

1844
01:02:20,270 --> 01:02:18,240
um the middle of the year the beginning

1845
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:20,280
of July August and September and there's

1846
01:02:23,870 --> 01:02:21,599
just a couple of things to touch on here

1847
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:23,880
before we ramp up I think at this point

1848
01:02:28,490 --> 01:02:25,680
things did quiet down a little bit on

1849
01:02:30,770 --> 01:02:28,500
the UFO front UAP reporting front that

1850
01:02:32,569 --> 01:02:30,780
tended to me to be because we were

1851
01:02:35,809 --> 01:02:32,579
ramping up towards the report that was

1852
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:35,819
due by October 31st you mentioned Arrow

1853
01:02:40,010 --> 01:02:37,680
several times that all domain anomaly

1854
01:02:42,530 --> 01:02:40,020
resolution office this was announced

1855
01:02:45,109 --> 01:02:42,540
formally in July we hear Dr Sean

1856
01:02:47,450 --> 01:02:45,119
Kirkpatrick had taken over and we know

1857
01:02:49,430 --> 01:02:47,460
that already has work is underway to get

1858
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:49,440
that report out that would be released

1859
01:02:55,250 --> 01:02:53,520
surely by the 31st of October 2022

1860
01:02:57,170 --> 01:02:55,260
um what were your thoughts on the the

1861
01:03:00,289 --> 01:02:57,180
name change at this point we've had the

1862
01:03:01,309 --> 01:03:00,299
up task force the AY MSG we now go to

1863
01:03:03,170 --> 01:03:01,319
Arrow

1864
01:03:06,829 --> 01:03:03,180
why all the changes and is this

1865
01:03:09,410 --> 01:03:06,839
deliberate obfuscation or is it just the

1866
01:03:10,910 --> 01:03:09,420
way government works I'm afraid it's

1867
01:03:12,829 --> 01:03:10,920
just the way that government works you

1868
01:03:14,210 --> 01:03:12,839
know UAP task force really made sense

1869
01:03:16,250 --> 01:03:14,220
that name

1870
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:16,260
you know establishing within the Navy a

1871
01:03:20,329 --> 01:03:18,960
task force that looks at UAP

1872
01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:20,339
that was logical

1873
01:03:25,549 --> 01:03:24,059
uh but then we had the uh aimsog uh as

1874
01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:25,559
they called it I mean that was the most

1875
01:03:29,809 --> 01:03:27,359
word solid I think I've ever seen in a

1876
01:03:30,770 --> 01:03:29,819
government organization and its name in

1877
01:03:32,510 --> 01:03:30,780
general

1878
01:03:34,490 --> 01:03:32,520
the funny thing is

1879
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:34,500
I guess it should have been expected

1880
01:03:39,950 --> 01:03:37,440
this is kind of tricky to to figure out

1881
01:03:42,109 --> 01:03:39,960
if we go all the way back to all sap

1882
01:03:43,849 --> 01:03:42,119
right Advanced Aerospace weapon systems

1883
01:03:47,089 --> 01:03:43,859
application program headed by James

1884
01:03:49,549 --> 01:03:47,099
lacaski out of the DIA

1885
01:03:50,510 --> 01:03:49,559
as we read in the book that you have on

1886
01:03:53,450 --> 01:03:50,520
your shelf right there I believe

1887
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:53,460
skinwalkers at the Pentagon uh we we

1888
01:03:57,890 --> 01:03:55,920
hear that there is

1889
01:04:00,589 --> 01:03:57,900
there was an effort rather and and they

1890
01:04:03,109 --> 01:04:00,599
were seeking the aid of uh Senator Harry

1891
01:04:06,770 --> 01:04:03,119
Reid at the time to try and get special

1892
01:04:09,829 --> 01:04:06,780
Access program status for that program

1893
01:04:11,690 --> 01:04:09,839
and in order to do so they had to have a

1894
01:04:13,370 --> 01:04:11,700
unclassified nickname for the program

1895
01:04:16,430 --> 01:04:13,380
and the unclassified nickname they came

1896
01:04:19,130 --> 01:04:16,440
up what came up with for ASAP was atip

1897
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:19,140
uh then atip that name is borrowed

1898
01:04:25,010 --> 01:04:21,599
thereafter for the informal Pentagon

1899
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:25,020
initiative that Elizondo headed yeah out

1900
01:04:29,690 --> 01:04:27,839
of which we uh understand the UAP task

1901
01:04:33,049 --> 01:04:29,700
force essentially grew because

1902
01:04:35,329 --> 01:04:33,059
somewhat uh out of the portfolio of the

1903
01:04:37,609 --> 01:04:35,339
pentagon's informal atyp and some of the

1904
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:37,619
people who were involved with that we

1905
01:04:41,930 --> 01:04:40,079
had the establishment of a UAP task

1906
01:04:43,370 --> 01:04:41,940
force but what's interesting about that

1907
01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:43,380
and I promise this is going to come back

1908
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:44,760
around to Arrow here in a moment and the

1909
01:04:47,809 --> 01:04:46,559
reason for the name change but I think

1910
01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:47,819
it's important to understand the lineage

1911
01:04:53,690 --> 01:04:50,400
leading up to that before the official

1912
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:53,700
establishment of the UAP task force the

1913
01:04:58,010 --> 01:04:55,680
UAP task force had been mentioned by

1914
01:05:01,250 --> 01:04:58,020
name in a bill language of which I guess

1915
01:05:03,410 --> 01:05:01,260
went into the 2021 uh National Defense

1916
01:05:06,829 --> 01:05:03,420
authorization active memory serves

1917
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:06,839
but uh researcher Roger glassel before

1918
01:05:10,849 --> 01:05:08,880
that had also received in response to a

1919
01:05:12,289 --> 01:05:10,859
statement or rather in a statement that

1920
01:05:14,650 --> 01:05:12,299
he received in response to queries to

1921
01:05:17,089 --> 01:05:14,660
Susan Goff the Pentagon spokesperson

1922
01:05:20,329 --> 01:05:17,099
she had already conveyed to glassel that

1923
01:05:23,230 --> 01:05:20,339
there was a interagency task force

1924
01:05:25,730 --> 01:05:23,240
that was looking at data related to UAP

1925
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:25,740
that was the UAP task force they were

1926
01:05:30,410 --> 01:05:27,180
essentially doing that job long before

1927
01:05:31,849 --> 01:05:30,420
norquist at that time uh came forward

1928
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:31,859
and said you know we've established this

1929
01:05:34,910 --> 01:05:32,880
department

1930
01:05:36,289 --> 01:05:34,920
with the formal establishment of that

1931
01:05:38,089 --> 01:05:36,299
department that evidently had already

1932
01:05:39,890 --> 01:05:38,099
been referred to in Bill language and

1933
01:05:41,089 --> 01:05:39,900
had also been referred to a little bit

1934
01:05:41,690 --> 01:05:41,099
more

1935
01:05:43,490 --> 01:05:41,700
um

1936
01:05:45,890 --> 01:05:43,500
conventionally I guess you know just

1937
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:45,900
using kind of General Language by Susan

1938
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:49,440
Goff before that we got a report and we

1939
01:05:55,069 --> 01:05:52,799
had out of that report uh a memorandum

1940
01:05:58,010 --> 01:05:55,079
that was uh issued I think coinciding

1941
01:06:02,030 --> 01:05:58,020
with the delivery of that report uh and

1942
01:06:05,210 --> 01:06:02,040
the memorandum said that the office uh

1943
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:05,220
well that the dod was going to formalize

1944
01:06:10,490 --> 01:06:07,920
its reporting structure and the system

1945
01:06:11,930 --> 01:06:10,500
and the and the organization and its

1946
01:06:14,030 --> 01:06:11,940
structure in terms of how they were

1947
01:06:15,230 --> 01:06:14,040
collecting this UAP data they had said

1948
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:15,240
all that at the time of the delivery of

1949
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:18,000
that report that resulted in the

1950
01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:19,380
establishment of the Airborne object

1951
01:06:23,930 --> 01:06:20,640
identification management and

1952
01:06:26,089 --> 01:06:23,940
synchronization group AKA aimsog

1953
01:06:27,109 --> 01:06:26,099
but the problem with that see a lot of

1954
01:06:28,910 --> 01:06:27,119
people looked at that and they said you

1955
01:06:30,890 --> 01:06:28,920
know this is the dod deliberately trying

1956
01:06:33,470 --> 01:06:30,900
to undermine Congress who is at this

1957
01:06:35,930 --> 01:06:33,480
current moment outlining language

1958
01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:35,940
for a more comprehensive office

1959
01:06:40,670 --> 01:06:38,760
well however that was viewed and many

1960
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:40,680
people including Lou Elizondo and others

1961
01:06:44,510 --> 01:06:42,480
came on the record and told me were in

1962
01:06:46,490 --> 01:06:44,520
our reporting for the debrief that they

1963
01:06:48,490 --> 01:06:46,500
didn't think that you know Senators

1964
01:06:51,410 --> 01:06:48,500
especially New York Senator Kirsten

1965
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:51,420
gillibrand supported the dod going ahead

1966
01:06:55,370 --> 01:06:54,000
and establishing a office I don't know

1967
01:06:58,609 --> 01:06:55,380
that it was necessarily meant to

1968
01:07:00,589 --> 01:06:58,619
undermine what Congress was calling for

1969
01:07:02,089 --> 01:07:00,599
again it was just kind of the ongoing

1970
01:07:04,609 --> 01:07:02,099
delineation of what they were doing we

1971
01:07:06,650 --> 01:07:04,619
had all sap it had its you know secret

1972
01:07:08,690 --> 01:07:06,660
unclassified name that was borrowed for

1973
01:07:10,370 --> 01:07:08,700
an informal initiative an informal

1974
01:07:12,529 --> 01:07:10,380
initiative that obviously was referenced

1975
01:07:15,049 --> 01:07:12,539
as a task force by Susan Goff but then

1976
01:07:16,370 --> 01:07:15,059
later actually officially named the UAP

1977
01:07:18,770 --> 01:07:16,380
task force but not before it was

1978
01:07:20,809 --> 01:07:18,780
mentioned as such in a bill and then at

1979
01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:20,819
the time of the odni report by the UAP

1980
01:07:23,809 --> 01:07:22,319
task force they say that there's going

1981
01:07:24,890 --> 01:07:23,819
to be an further formalization and

1982
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:24,900
continuation of the efforts under

1983
01:07:27,890 --> 01:07:26,160
another name which came out in

1984
01:07:30,049 --> 01:07:27,900
Thanksgiving of last year

1985
01:07:31,609 --> 01:07:30,059
right and then once a bill passes into

1986
01:07:33,049 --> 01:07:31,619
law earlier this year that being the

1987
01:07:36,049 --> 01:07:33,059
National Defense authorization act for

1988
01:07:37,250 --> 01:07:36,059
fiscal year 2022 Congress directed the

1989
01:07:38,809 --> 01:07:37,260
dod

1990
01:07:41,390 --> 01:07:38,819
to do something slightly differently

1991
01:07:42,589 --> 01:07:41,400
with that organization than what the DoD

1992
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:42,599
said they would do themselves so I

1993
01:07:46,250 --> 01:07:44,640
reached out to uh Susan Goff about that

1994
01:07:48,829 --> 01:07:46,260
and she said look

1995
01:07:51,170 --> 01:07:48,839
we didn't mention she said you'll note

1996
01:07:52,609 --> 01:07:51,180
rather that uh in the language that

1997
01:07:54,650 --> 01:07:52,619
Congress passed she said the Pentagon is

1998
01:07:57,529 --> 01:07:54,660
never going to comment on legislation

1999
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:57,539
before it passes once that passed she

2000
01:08:00,410 --> 01:07:58,799
said you'll notice that the name of the

2001
01:08:01,910 --> 01:08:00,420
office was removed from the version that

2002
01:08:04,609 --> 01:08:01,920
went into law

2003
01:08:07,250 --> 01:08:04,619
and that's because essentially whatever

2004
01:08:08,930 --> 01:08:07,260
we have the dod we're going to abide by

2005
01:08:10,970 --> 01:08:08,940
what Congress directs

2006
01:08:12,470 --> 01:08:10,980
and so aimsog the dod went ahead and

2007
01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:12,480
they established aimsog but then it was

2008
01:08:15,470 --> 01:08:13,680
passed into law that there was supposed

2009
01:08:18,410 --> 01:08:15,480
to be a more comprehensive program out

2010
01:08:20,990 --> 01:08:18,420
of which arrow is Born the main reason

2011
01:08:23,090 --> 01:08:21,000
for renaming it is essentially and this

2012
01:08:25,309 --> 01:08:23,100
is my view Andy a acknowledgment of okay

2013
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:25,319
we're going to rename Rebrand our

2014
01:08:29,689 --> 01:08:27,359
organization that we established back

2015
01:08:32,090 --> 01:08:29,699
last Thanksgiving give it a new name

2016
01:08:34,070 --> 01:08:32,100
that is somewhat more in keeping with

2017
01:08:36,110 --> 01:08:34,080
what Congress is directing us to do with

2018
01:08:38,269 --> 01:08:36,120
this organization this agency

2019
01:08:41,510 --> 01:08:38,279
so that kind of keeps everybody happy

2020
01:08:44,050 --> 01:08:41,520
right uh and we got the all domain

2021
01:08:46,070 --> 01:08:44,060
anomaly resolution office which is not

2022
01:08:48,169 --> 01:08:46,080
dissimilar from the original proposed

2023
01:08:49,849 --> 01:08:48,179
name that uh the gildebrand amendment in

2024
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:49,859
that ndaa before it was passed into law

2025
01:08:53,630 --> 01:08:52,080
actually entailed now as far as what

2026
01:08:55,729 --> 01:08:53,640
that name means

2027
01:08:59,570 --> 01:08:55,739
again we've seen a lot of different

2028
01:09:01,550 --> 01:08:59,580
uh names for these programs many of them

2029
01:09:03,950 --> 01:09:01,560
at times don't seem to have as much to

2030
01:09:04,970 --> 01:09:03,960
do directly with UAP like all SEP you

2031
01:09:06,590 --> 01:09:04,980
know

2032
01:09:08,689 --> 01:09:06,600
but I think that with the ultimate

2033
01:09:11,870 --> 01:09:08,699
anomaly resolution office what we are

2034
01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:11,880
seeing is an intentional by virtue of

2035
01:09:15,709 --> 01:09:13,859
the way it's worded the name an

2036
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:15,719
intentional effort to act to acknowledge

2037
01:09:19,490 --> 01:09:17,759
and further expand the scope of what

2038
01:09:21,470 --> 01:09:19,500
kind of phenomenon

2039
01:09:23,870 --> 01:09:21,480
video D is studying they're not just

2040
01:09:25,789 --> 01:09:23,880
looking at aerial phenomena this is an

2041
01:09:27,650 --> 01:09:25,799
all-domain phenomenon not necessarily

2042
01:09:29,450 --> 01:09:27,660
trans medium in the way that we see

2043
01:09:30,769 --> 01:09:29,460
objects coming into and going out of

2044
01:09:32,209 --> 01:09:30,779
water and things like this although I

2045
01:09:34,130 --> 01:09:32,219
suspect there's data that does indicate

2046
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:34,140
that some of these objects do that but

2047
01:09:38,090 --> 01:09:36,480
we are looking at undersea in the air

2048
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:38,100
and in space we're looking at all

2049
01:09:41,630 --> 01:09:40,080
domains wherever this anomalous

2050
01:09:43,070 --> 01:09:41,640
phenomena that may have relevance to

2051
01:09:44,809 --> 01:09:43,080
National Security wherever that occurs

2052
01:09:46,669 --> 01:09:44,819
wherever our military encounters that

2053
01:09:48,410 --> 01:09:46,679
we're going to be looking at all of it

2054
01:09:51,289 --> 01:09:48,420
and I think that that's where we are

2055
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,299
left with the Aero organization the name

2056
01:09:55,790 --> 01:09:53,520
is meant to reflect the intention of the

2057
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:55,800
mission and all the different domains

2058
01:10:01,490 --> 01:09:59,280
that that mission will cover

2059
01:10:02,990 --> 01:10:01,500
very well recapped as well and I hate to

2060
01:10:05,750 --> 01:10:03,000
do it as a service but just in the name

2061
01:10:07,610 --> 01:10:05,760
of and time and getting on to I think we

2062
01:10:09,970 --> 01:10:07,620
found August August and September

2063
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:09,980
especially those of us on social media

2064
01:10:15,890 --> 01:10:12,719
noticed a lot of infighting and treading

2065
01:10:17,209 --> 01:10:15,900
water as we await Arrow's report and

2066
01:10:19,010 --> 01:10:17,219
some of the Articles worth checking out

2067
01:10:21,649 --> 01:10:19,020
from that time was uh cosmics and

2068
01:10:24,350 --> 01:10:21,659
Phantoms above your crane that was a

2069
01:10:26,330 --> 01:10:24,360
study that came out from Ukraine which

2070
01:10:28,490 --> 01:10:26,340
ultimately was by the scientific Council

2071
01:10:30,950 --> 01:10:28,500
shot down as being premature

2072
01:10:32,810 --> 01:10:30,960
um Avi Lloyd was someone who came out

2073
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:32,820
against the data that was published as

2074
01:10:36,770 --> 01:10:34,320
being not of the right quality to

2075
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:36,780
discuss in terms of UAP it's fair to say

2076
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:37,920
there were definitely some interesting

2077
01:10:41,870 --> 01:10:39,600
Technologies and still are being

2078
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:41,880
deployed over the Skies of Ukraine that

2079
01:10:46,130 --> 01:10:43,920
again as you have discussed adversarial

2080
01:10:48,110 --> 01:10:46,140
technology will be abound in those areas

2081
01:10:50,030 --> 01:10:48,120
and then September there was a paper

2082
01:10:52,850 --> 01:10:50,040
suggesting perhaps we're hidden from ETS

2083
01:10:55,370 --> 01:10:52,860
who technologically could find us due to

2084
01:10:56,990 --> 01:10:55,380
micro micro lensing signatures and micro

2085
01:10:58,729 --> 01:10:57,000
lensing which was really interesting as

2086
01:11:00,410 --> 01:10:58,739
well like just because we've got a lot

2087
01:11:02,450 --> 01:11:00,420
to cover still and the time I've got

2088
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:02,460
left I'll just again Point people to

2089
01:11:06,770 --> 01:11:04,440
read those out but I feel we move

2090
01:11:09,229 --> 01:11:06,780
towards October and we're expecting this

2091
01:11:11,689 --> 01:11:09,239
October report this is where the rumor

2092
01:11:13,790 --> 01:11:11,699
mill online went into overdrive we heard

2093
01:11:17,870 --> 01:11:13,800
about October surprises coming up it may

2094
01:11:19,729 --> 01:11:17,880
be used in elections that the UAP story

2095
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:19,739
um ultimately that never happened we

2096
01:11:23,930 --> 01:11:21,840
were expecting the report on the 31st of

2097
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:23,940
October there were many many countdowns

2098
01:11:27,470 --> 01:11:26,159
for this It came it went what was your

2099
01:11:30,110 --> 01:11:27,480
view

2100
01:11:32,450 --> 01:11:30,120
yeah it it did come and go and by the

2101
01:11:33,770 --> 01:11:32,460
way the October surprise uh that's in

2102
01:11:35,810 --> 01:11:33,780
reference of course to an excellent

2103
01:11:38,330 --> 01:11:35,820
article by my colleague Bryce zabel who

2104
01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:38,340
wrote uh some speculations about what

2105
01:11:41,870 --> 01:11:39,840
could happen

2106
01:11:43,729 --> 01:11:41,880
when that expected report if it were

2107
01:11:44,990 --> 01:11:43,739
delivered on that date of October 31st

2108
01:11:46,910 --> 01:11:45,000
that was when it was supposed to arrive

2109
01:11:49,490 --> 01:11:46,920
it didn't get here by that time but had

2110
01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:49,500
it arrived in time Bryce's fundamental

2111
01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:52,080
uh speculation was you know what what

2112
01:11:55,130 --> 01:11:53,760
might happen what might be the result in

2113
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:55,140
terms of the U.S election considering

2114
01:11:58,850 --> 01:11:56,400
that this report comes out on Halloween

2115
01:12:00,410 --> 01:11:58,860
and Days Later Americans go to the polls

2116
01:12:01,370 --> 01:12:00,420
and we cast our votes in the midterm

2117
01:12:02,930 --> 01:12:01,380
election

2118
01:12:06,110 --> 01:12:02,940
he wondered if

2119
01:12:08,270 --> 01:12:06,120
that report could in any way be used

2120
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:08,280
as a point of influence on the election

2121
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:10,800
and that's you know a perspective that

2122
01:12:14,510 --> 01:12:12,900
is you know well worth consideration but

2123
01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:14,520
the report didn't arrive on time and

2124
01:12:18,290 --> 01:12:15,600
none of us knew that that was going to

2125
01:12:20,810 --> 01:12:18,300
be the case in fact based on the arrival

2126
01:12:22,490 --> 01:12:20,820
on time of the previous report many of

2127
01:12:25,370 --> 01:12:22,500
us had probably been expecting that by

2128
01:12:26,990 --> 01:12:25,380
October 31st we'd be seeing something so

2129
01:12:28,970 --> 01:12:27,000
the date came and went and it's kind of

2130
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,980
surprising that I mean now several weeks

2131
01:12:31,729 --> 01:12:30,480
later we're closing then on the end of

2132
01:12:34,250 --> 01:12:31,739
2022

2133
01:12:36,110 --> 01:12:34,260
we still haven't seen that report and

2134
01:12:37,130 --> 01:12:36,120
that I think is in large part the main

2135
01:12:40,370 --> 01:12:37,140
reason

2136
01:12:42,290 --> 01:12:40,380
for a media Roundtable that the dod held

2137
01:12:44,450 --> 01:12:42,300
the other day with Ronald Moultrie and

2138
01:12:46,189 --> 01:12:44,460
also director of Arrow Sean Kirkpatrick

2139
01:12:48,950 --> 01:12:46,199
Dr Sean Kirkpatrick who's a career

2140
01:12:50,450 --> 01:12:48,960
physicist and analyst I think a guy who

2141
01:12:52,370 --> 01:12:50,460
is extremely well equipped for the

2142
01:12:55,610 --> 01:12:52,380
mission that arrow is currently carrying

2143
01:12:57,050 --> 01:12:55,620
out obviously the the public is

2144
01:12:58,610 --> 01:12:57,060
wondering what the hell is up with this

2145
01:12:59,870 --> 01:12:58,620
report why isn't it here why isn't it

2146
01:13:02,990 --> 01:12:59,880
you know why hasn't it been delivered

2147
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:03,000
and the dod wanted to as an effort

2148
01:13:07,850 --> 01:13:05,280
essentially to kind of address that and

2149
01:13:09,649 --> 01:13:07,860
to kind of uh offer an appetizer we'll

2150
01:13:11,090 --> 01:13:09,659
say what the Public's appetite a little

2151
01:13:12,410 --> 01:13:11,100
bit in advance of the report they say

2152
01:13:13,550 --> 01:13:12,420
it's imminent it's coming we're going to

2153
01:13:15,709 --> 01:13:13,560
see it probably before the end of the

2154
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:15,719
year if they say that's the case I don't

2155
01:13:19,610 --> 01:13:18,000
doubt it John Greenwald also who has

2156
01:13:22,490 --> 01:13:19,620
filed another mandatory declassification

2157
01:13:23,630 --> 01:13:22,500
review with relation to that report uh

2158
01:13:25,669 --> 01:13:23,640
trying to get any kind of information

2159
01:13:26,990 --> 01:13:25,679
about it as early as he can has also

2160
01:13:28,729 --> 01:13:27,000
been informed that the report is quote

2161
01:13:30,890 --> 01:13:28,739
with senior leadership so I presume it's

2162
01:13:32,330 --> 01:13:30,900
now in the hands of Congress that much

2163
01:13:34,370 --> 01:13:32,340
seemed to have been reflected by some of

2164
01:13:36,050 --> 01:13:34,380
the language during the uh media event

2165
01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:36,060
the other day which by the way

2166
01:13:41,149 --> 01:13:39,600
I wasn't able to attend uh in the rare

2167
01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:41,159
instance where I tried to take a little

2168
01:13:45,290 --> 01:13:42,480
bit of time off I was traveling

2169
01:13:47,209 --> 01:13:45,300
attending a meeting related to UAP with

2170
01:13:49,250 --> 01:13:47,219
some colleagues of mine who are also

2171
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:49,260
involved in this subject uh the very day

2172
01:13:52,010 --> 01:13:50,400
that that happened and there was very

2173
01:13:53,450 --> 01:13:52,020
little about it said obviously some of

2174
01:13:54,890 --> 01:13:53,460
the press were invited there were some

2175
01:13:57,649 --> 01:13:54,900
members of the press who were reporting

2176
01:13:59,149 --> 01:13:57,659
on it I wasn't entirely uh impressed

2177
01:14:01,490 --> 01:13:59,159
with a lot of their questions the

2178
01:14:06,110 --> 01:14:01,500
questions mostly seemed to just

2179
01:14:07,550 --> 01:14:06,120
I mean completely uh focus on the number

2180
01:14:08,930 --> 01:14:07,560
of reports that have been collected

2181
01:14:11,390 --> 01:14:08,940
everybody wanted to know if there were

2182
01:14:12,950 --> 01:14:11,400
more than 144 incidents which is the

2183
01:14:14,570 --> 01:14:12,960
number that was cited in the odni report

2184
01:14:16,010 --> 01:14:14,580
had they paid attention during the

2185
01:14:17,810 --> 01:14:16,020
Congressional hearings back in may they

2186
01:14:19,250 --> 01:14:17,820
would have heard Scott Bray and Ronald

2187
01:14:21,290 --> 01:14:19,260
mulch be talking about more than 400

2188
01:14:23,209 --> 01:14:21,300
reports we already know how many more

2189
01:14:25,130 --> 01:14:23,219
reports and Kirkpatrick said during the

2190
01:14:27,590 --> 01:14:25,140
thing on Friday there aren't a

2191
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:27,600
significant number greater than that 400

2192
01:14:31,310 --> 01:14:29,760
that arrow is currently working with but

2193
01:14:33,169 --> 01:14:31,320
the Press of course having not done

2194
01:14:35,090 --> 01:14:33,179
their homework I can't say that they

2195
01:14:37,010 --> 01:14:35,100
ever really do with this subject you

2196
01:14:38,990 --> 01:14:37,020
know they were just focusing on that and

2197
01:14:40,850 --> 01:14:39,000
had very little to ask about the you

2198
01:14:42,649 --> 01:14:40,860
know the the technologies that are being

2199
01:14:44,209 --> 01:14:42,659
used to collect this data what we're

2200
01:14:45,950 --> 01:14:44,219
learning from the from the study of

2201
01:14:48,530 --> 01:14:45,960
these phenomena what the overarching

2202
01:14:49,610 --> 01:14:48,540
narratives may be you know there were so

2203
01:14:51,229 --> 01:14:49,620
many good questions that could have been

2204
01:14:52,189 --> 01:14:51,239
asked that just we didn't see in that

2205
01:14:54,290 --> 01:14:52,199
short little

2206
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:54,300
uh media event but that was obviously

2207
01:14:58,130 --> 01:14:56,400
aimed at trying to keep us happy until

2208
01:15:00,590 --> 01:14:58,140
we get the report and so really apart

2209
01:15:03,410 --> 01:15:00,600
from that Andy all we can say is the

2210
01:15:04,910 --> 01:15:03,420
report's late but the dod is making an

2211
01:15:07,490 --> 01:15:04,920
effort to try and acknowledge public

2212
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:07,500
interest in receiving it supposedly

2213
01:15:09,709 --> 01:15:08,640
we're going to see something by the end

2214
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:09,719
of the year maybe and I'll have to do

2215
01:15:14,390 --> 01:15:12,000
another show when it comes out who knows

2216
01:15:16,430 --> 01:15:14,400
you never know and listen November came

2217
01:15:17,990 --> 01:15:16,440
and went we still awaited the report on

2218
01:15:19,310 --> 01:15:18,000
a daily basis

2219
01:15:20,810 --> 01:15:19,320
um an article that was written at that

2220
01:15:22,669 --> 01:15:20,820
time by yourself was about the great

2221
01:15:24,229 --> 01:15:22,679
filter Theory and this was a team at

2222
01:15:26,570 --> 01:15:24,239
NASA's jet propulsion labs in California

2223
01:15:28,010 --> 01:15:26,580
putting forward the idea that there may

2224
01:15:30,350 --> 01:15:28,020
well have been other civilizations out

2225
01:15:31,729 --> 01:15:30,360
there in the cosmos Cosmos over time but

2226
01:15:34,010 --> 01:15:31,739
they destroy themselves before being

2227
01:15:35,930 --> 01:15:34,020
able to communicate with us that was our

2228
01:15:37,910 --> 01:15:35,940
wonderfully Bleak picture to paint as we

2229
01:15:40,070 --> 01:15:37,920
rolled on towards Oblivion in the end of

2230
01:15:42,169 --> 01:15:40,080
days which the the planet Earth seems to

2231
01:15:45,050 --> 01:15:42,179
be hurtling towards on a daily and

2232
01:15:46,970 --> 01:15:45,060
weekly basis at the moment but again

2233
01:15:49,250 --> 01:15:46,980
we've talked about so far just before we

2234
01:15:51,010 --> 01:15:49,260
hit December the James Webb going out

2235
01:15:53,030 --> 01:15:51,020
there technological breakthroughs

2236
01:15:55,310 --> 01:15:53,040
advancements you mentioned were

2237
01:15:58,310 --> 01:15:55,320
potentially on the cusp of understanding

2238
01:16:00,950 --> 01:15:58,320
some of this UFO technology for lack of

2239
01:16:02,149 --> 01:16:00,960
using the UAP term in a way we never

2240
01:16:04,430 --> 01:16:02,159
have before

2241
01:16:06,050 --> 01:16:04,440
and then you look at the idea that we're

2242
01:16:08,510 --> 01:16:06,060
still at war with each other

2243
01:16:10,850 --> 01:16:08,520
we're still spying on each other the

2244
01:16:12,530 --> 01:16:10,860
governments are still being deliberately

2245
01:16:13,850 --> 01:16:12,540
obtuse when we're trying to get

2246
01:16:16,130 --> 01:16:13,860
information from them in terms of the

2247
01:16:18,050 --> 01:16:16,140
UFO subject

2248
01:16:21,470 --> 01:16:18,060
have you seen this as being a positive

2249
01:16:24,950 --> 01:16:21,480
year in terms of the UFO topic overall

2250
01:16:27,169 --> 01:16:24,960
or do you still see it as were were

2251
01:16:29,149 --> 01:16:27,179
really struggling to Chip Away

2252
01:16:31,130 --> 01:16:29,159
at whatever that as it's being put up to

2253
01:16:32,750 --> 01:16:31,140
deliberately block and make awkward and

2254
01:16:33,770 --> 01:16:32,760
complicated any sort of information

2255
01:16:36,709 --> 01:16:33,780
release

2256
01:16:39,229 --> 01:16:36,719
I think it has been a positive year uh

2257
01:16:42,169 --> 01:16:39,239
I'll just say this I am not I don't

2258
01:16:44,450 --> 01:16:42,179
consider myself a conspiracy theorist I

2259
01:16:46,669 --> 01:16:44,460
also don't like when that term is used

2260
01:16:48,410 --> 01:16:46,679
as a pejorative

2261
01:16:50,390 --> 01:16:48,420
and I think that it's been used as a

2262
01:16:51,770 --> 01:16:50,400
pejorative especially since the Kennedy

2263
01:16:52,850 --> 01:16:51,780
assassination which is an aspect of

2264
01:16:54,110 --> 01:16:52,860
history that we don't have time to get

2265
01:16:56,209 --> 01:16:54,120
into right now

2266
01:16:59,090 --> 01:16:56,219
there has been intentional use of that

2267
01:17:00,290 --> 01:16:59,100
term though in a way that is and I think

2268
01:17:02,209 --> 01:17:00,300
it's fair to say this is a strong word

2269
01:17:04,790 --> 01:17:02,219
but it's fair to say that that term has

2270
01:17:06,770 --> 01:17:04,800
been weaponized so that people who ask

2271
01:17:08,390 --> 01:17:06,780
questions about potential ulterior

2272
01:17:10,370 --> 01:17:08,400
motives involving certain historical

2273
01:17:12,050 --> 01:17:10,380
events can be marginalized as being

2274
01:17:14,030 --> 01:17:12,060
crackpots or crazy

2275
01:17:16,070 --> 01:17:14,040
and so I don't like using that term in

2276
01:17:17,570 --> 01:17:16,080
that way and when I say I'm not a

2277
01:17:19,250 --> 01:17:17,580
conspiracy theorist

2278
01:17:21,590 --> 01:17:19,260
I mean that to say that I'm not someone

2279
01:17:24,290 --> 01:17:21,600
who appeals to conspiracy to get a point

2280
01:17:25,850 --> 01:17:24,300
across I tried to take facts

2281
01:17:28,370 --> 01:17:25,860
signing as a journalist I have to

2282
01:17:31,130 --> 01:17:28,380
function this way I have to go with what

2283
01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:31,140
the data yields which is exactly what Dr

2284
01:17:35,689 --> 01:17:33,360
Sean Kirkpatrick said during that uh

2285
01:17:36,950 --> 01:17:35,699
media event on Friday I'm a physicist I

2286
01:17:39,229 --> 01:17:36,960
follow the scientific method and I have

2287
01:17:40,729 --> 01:17:39,239
to go wherever that takes me that

2288
01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:40,739
process is not unlike what a journalist

2289
01:17:44,930 --> 01:17:42,960
or a historical researcher does you know

2290
01:17:47,330 --> 01:17:44,940
you follow the data

2291
01:17:49,430 --> 01:17:47,340
I'll also concede that there are real

2292
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:49,440
conspiracies and to theorize about their

2293
01:17:53,450 --> 01:17:51,840
existence is not necessarily unwarranted

2294
01:17:54,410 --> 01:17:53,460
there's plenty of historical precedent

2295
01:17:56,330 --> 01:17:54,420
for that

2296
01:17:59,570 --> 01:17:56,340
I say all of that

2297
01:18:00,530 --> 01:17:59,580
in order to preface what I'm about to

2298
01:18:02,689 --> 01:18:00,540
say

2299
01:18:04,910 --> 01:18:02,699
we should always be critically minded we

2300
01:18:07,729 --> 01:18:04,920
should always be cautious about

2301
01:18:10,430 --> 01:18:07,739
government we should also be aware of

2302
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:10,440
the reasons for secrecy

2303
01:18:13,189 --> 01:18:11,760
and there's always going to be a certain

2304
01:18:15,169 --> 01:18:13,199
degree of secrecy there are always going

2305
01:18:16,970 --> 01:18:15,179
to be Secrets necessary secrets that are

2306
01:18:18,830 --> 01:18:16,980
protecting National Security and thereby

2307
01:18:20,570 --> 01:18:18,840
our way of life right here in the United

2308
01:18:22,970 --> 01:18:20,580
States or in the United Kingdom or

2309
01:18:25,610 --> 01:18:22,980
anywhere around the world well in a free

2310
01:18:28,070 --> 01:18:25,620
and open Democratic Society at least

2311
01:18:30,709 --> 01:18:28,080
so understanding that they're going to

2312
01:18:35,270 --> 01:18:30,719
have to be inevitable secrets

2313
01:18:37,010 --> 01:18:35,280
the posturing by the dod their position

2314
01:18:38,990 --> 01:18:37,020
the way that they've interacted with the

2315
01:18:41,870 --> 01:18:39,000
media and with the public

2316
01:18:44,570 --> 01:18:41,880
in 2022 from the Congressional hearings

2317
01:18:46,310 --> 01:18:44,580
to the passing of of legislation and the

2318
01:18:47,990 --> 01:18:46,320
dod's response to that and their efforts

2319
01:18:48,890 --> 01:18:48,000
to communicate with Congress and with

2320
01:18:50,750 --> 01:18:48,900
the people

2321
01:18:52,130 --> 01:18:50,760
the media Roundtable that they held on

2322
01:18:54,110 --> 01:18:52,140
Friday even though the report's late

2323
01:18:56,149 --> 01:18:54,120
look it may be a good thing that the

2324
01:18:57,770 --> 01:18:56,159
report's late right if indeed they

2325
01:19:00,649 --> 01:18:57,780
needed more time to comprehensively go

2326
01:19:02,229 --> 01:19:00,659
over all the data sure and and if in the

2327
01:19:05,390 --> 01:19:02,239
furtherance of getting a more complete

2328
01:19:07,010 --> 01:19:05,400
honest and accurate analysis they had to

2329
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:07,020
have more time but then they hold a

2330
01:19:10,850 --> 01:19:08,400
media Roundtable to at least address

2331
01:19:13,490 --> 01:19:10,860
this these all may be positive things

2332
01:19:15,470 --> 01:19:13,500
and while a natural human tendency is to

2333
01:19:17,270 --> 01:19:15,480
always be skeptical and to suspect that

2334
01:19:19,130 --> 01:19:17,280
there's something else going on many

2335
01:19:20,330 --> 01:19:19,140
still lead with that presumption when it

2336
01:19:22,189 --> 01:19:20,340
comes to UAP and the government's

2337
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:22,199
involvement but everything I'm seeing if

2338
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:23,760
we take it at face value seems to

2339
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:25,920
indicate that there is an effort toward

2340
01:19:30,050 --> 01:19:27,840
transparency there is an effort toward

2341
01:19:31,430 --> 01:19:30,060
resolving these issues there are efforts

2342
01:19:33,350 --> 01:19:31,440
to get more scientists involved like

2343
01:19:35,750 --> 01:19:33,360
what we see with NASA and this is

2344
01:19:37,430 --> 01:19:35,760
somewhat galvanizing citizen scientists

2345
01:19:38,810 --> 01:19:37,440
or whether I should say scientists

2346
01:19:40,250 --> 01:19:38,820
outside of government but also you know

2347
01:19:42,050 --> 01:19:40,260
people like myself who are interested in

2348
01:19:43,790 --> 01:19:42,060
scientific Mysteries but who want more

2349
01:19:45,649 --> 01:19:43,800
accountability from government

2350
01:19:47,570 --> 01:19:45,659
these are all positive developments to

2351
01:19:49,430 --> 01:19:47,580
me and people who have over the last few

2352
01:19:50,630 --> 01:19:49,440
months Andy's been saying ah you know

2353
01:19:51,770 --> 01:19:50,640
things have gotten quiet there isn't

2354
01:19:54,110 --> 01:19:51,780
much going on

2355
01:19:55,790 --> 01:19:54,120
arguably 2022 has been one of the most

2356
01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:55,800
significant years in the history of this

2357
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:57,840
phenomenon and I'm hoping that this

2358
01:20:01,970 --> 01:20:00,480
momentum continues on into 2023 and the

2359
01:20:03,830 --> 01:20:01,980
years ahead

2360
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:03,840
well we finish on December and it

2361
01:20:08,810 --> 01:20:06,480
actually does give us a look at 2023 as

2362
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,820
you mentioned several times the ndaa has

2363
01:20:11,870 --> 01:20:10,800
passed and been signed into law that I

2364
01:20:14,330 --> 01:20:11,880
believe that happened today President

2365
01:20:16,010 --> 01:20:14,340
Biden signed that off uh the bill had

2366
01:20:18,830 --> 01:20:16,020
been known for some time to be Paving

2367
01:20:20,689 --> 01:20:18,840
the way uh in several ways but mainly

2368
01:20:22,850 --> 01:20:20,699
for whistleblowers to have a safer space

2369
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:22,860
to come forward and talk outside of the

2370
01:20:26,209 --> 01:20:24,239
ndas

2371
01:20:29,810 --> 01:20:26,219
finishing the heat off with this could

2372
01:20:31,790 --> 01:20:29,820
this be the story of 2023 do you foresee

2373
01:20:35,990 --> 01:20:31,800
whistleblowers coming forward either

2374
01:20:38,510 --> 01:20:36,000
publicly or not and speaking to congress

2375
01:20:40,729 --> 01:20:38,520
senate or a panel that's set up about

2376
01:20:42,890 --> 01:20:40,739
some of these incredible things like I

2377
01:20:44,570 --> 01:20:42,900
mentioned earlier retrieval programs

2378
01:20:46,310 --> 01:20:44,580
being aware of these sorts of programs

2379
01:20:48,410 --> 01:20:46,320
and whatnot

2380
01:20:51,050 --> 01:20:48,420
if those programs exist

2381
01:20:52,790 --> 01:20:51,060
and if by law

2382
01:20:54,910 --> 01:20:52,800
members of

2383
01:20:58,669 --> 01:20:54,920
government you know in various branches

2384
01:21:00,590 --> 01:20:58,679
felt that by virtue of their Oath by

2385
01:21:01,729 --> 01:21:00,600
virtue of their role in government and

2386
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:01,739
their profession that they could not

2387
01:21:06,290 --> 01:21:03,840
come forward and talk about this

2388
01:21:08,630 --> 01:21:06,300
there are now potentially laws that will

2389
01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:08,640
enable them to do so and so if those

2390
01:21:12,290 --> 01:21:10,140
programs have ever existed and there

2391
01:21:14,510 --> 01:21:12,300
have been structures that prevented them

2392
01:21:18,169 --> 01:21:14,520
from coming forward those employees and

2393
01:21:19,970 --> 01:21:18,179
talking about that that may no longer be

2394
01:21:21,770 --> 01:21:19,980
the case there may not be laws that will

2395
01:21:23,630 --> 01:21:21,780
enable them to come forward and

2396
01:21:25,970 --> 01:21:23,640
facilitate further discussion

2397
01:21:27,229 --> 01:21:25,980
and again if that ends up proving if it

2398
01:21:28,490 --> 01:21:27,239
was a bit of a Gambit you know we had to

2399
01:21:29,930 --> 01:21:28,500
kind of play their Bluff we don't know

2400
01:21:30,890 --> 01:21:29,940
what exists in government but if there

2401
01:21:32,330 --> 01:21:30,900
is something

2402
01:21:33,890 --> 01:21:32,340
you know we're going to put our cards up

2403
01:21:36,530 --> 01:21:33,900
on the table face up and we're going to

2404
01:21:37,790 --> 01:21:36,540
say you know here's our hand right if

2405
01:21:38,630 --> 01:21:37,800
indeed that's what Congress has just

2406
01:21:40,370 --> 01:21:38,640
done

2407
01:21:42,350 --> 01:21:40,380
and if indeed

2408
01:21:43,610 --> 01:21:42,360
they have now facilitated something that

2409
01:21:45,590 --> 01:21:43,620
we didn't know whether it existed for

2410
01:21:48,530 --> 01:21:45,600
sure but we strongly speculated it might

2411
01:21:49,729 --> 01:21:48,540
have this could I mean I'm always

2412
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:49,739
careful about using the d word

2413
01:21:52,669 --> 01:21:51,360
disclosure but this might be what

2414
01:21:54,890 --> 01:21:52,679
facilitates it

2415
01:21:57,470 --> 01:21:54,900
right I mean no amount of citizen action

2416
01:21:59,570 --> 01:21:57,480
no amount of whistleblowing in years

2417
01:22:01,550 --> 01:21:59,580
past ever was able to achieve it but I

2418
01:22:03,910 --> 01:22:01,560
mean through legislation

2419
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:03,920
and through the

2420
01:22:08,630 --> 01:22:06,719
the recreating or restructuring of

2421
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:08,640
government to facilitate the kind of

2422
01:22:12,830 --> 01:22:10,800
transparency that would have

2423
01:22:14,510 --> 01:22:12,840
um been impossible in the past yeah this

2424
01:22:16,370 --> 01:22:14,520
could actually be a road toward a

2425
01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:16,380
practical kind of disclosure but we've

2426
01:22:20,510 --> 01:22:18,480
got to wait and see it also may lead to

2427
01:22:22,910 --> 01:22:20,520
nothing there may be no such programs I

2428
01:22:24,169 --> 01:22:22,920
kind of doubt that these individuals may

2429
01:22:26,750 --> 01:22:24,179
still not come forward for various

2430
01:22:28,610 --> 01:22:26,760
reasons unknown to you and I uh it may

2431
01:22:31,250 --> 01:22:28,620
take more than legislation by Congress

2432
01:22:33,110 --> 01:22:31,260
to do that but we'll see and indeed if

2433
01:22:34,189 --> 01:22:33,120
the Indiana if the if the if the

2434
01:22:35,510 --> 01:22:34,199
language in the bill I haven't looked at

2435
01:22:37,790 --> 01:22:35,520
the final language that appeared in the

2436
01:22:39,229 --> 01:22:37,800
ndaa but if it hasn't changed from the

2437
01:22:40,850 --> 01:22:39,239
last version that I looked at I have a

2438
01:22:42,470 --> 01:22:40,860
good idea of what it what it entails and

2439
01:22:44,990 --> 01:22:42,480
it probably is going to entail exactly

2440
01:22:46,729 --> 01:22:45,000
what we saw just a few weeks ago so if

2441
01:22:48,470 --> 01:22:46,739
that's what passed into law we probably

2442
01:22:50,330 --> 01:22:48,480
have the clearest path forward I'll say

2443
01:22:52,189 --> 01:22:50,340
at least for right now toward broader

2444
01:22:54,350 --> 01:22:52,199
transparency on this issue that we have

2445
01:22:56,450 --> 01:22:54,360
seen in years decades in fact

2446
01:22:58,550 --> 01:22:56,460
I would encourage folk to check out D

2447
01:23:00,169 --> 01:22:58,560
Dean Johnson's blog an article that he

2448
01:23:02,750 --> 01:23:00,179
wrote on this today as well he follows

2449
01:23:04,130 --> 01:23:02,760
us incredibly well and is very well

2450
01:23:05,810 --> 01:23:04,140
versed in what he's talking about and

2451
01:23:07,610 --> 01:23:05,820
breaks it down very clearly and

2452
01:23:09,050 --> 01:23:07,620
succinctly as well

2453
01:23:10,430 --> 01:23:09,060
um Micah one last thing I want to ask

2454
01:23:12,470 --> 01:23:10,440
you you've been great with your time for

2455
01:23:15,590 --> 01:23:12,480
me again today what are your hopes in

2456
01:23:17,090 --> 01:23:15,600
for 2023 as pertains the UFO topic what

2457
01:23:19,010 --> 01:23:17,100
what could happen what do you hope

2458
01:23:20,630 --> 01:23:19,020
happens well I've already outlined a

2459
01:23:22,130 --> 01:23:20,640
little what could happen with this

2460
01:23:23,450 --> 01:23:22,140
legislation and again you know we all

2461
01:23:24,649 --> 01:23:23,460
probably have high hopes that they're

2462
01:23:25,910 --> 01:23:24,659
going to be officials who come forward

2463
01:23:27,890 --> 01:23:25,920
you know or people who have worked on

2464
01:23:30,530 --> 01:23:27,900
programs and and who will now be

2465
01:23:32,990 --> 01:23:30,540
encouraged to discuss what they know

2466
01:23:36,229 --> 01:23:33,000
there are always the

2467
01:23:38,649 --> 01:23:36,239
perhaps unexpected consequences

2468
01:23:40,970 --> 01:23:38,659
of sudden awareness by the public of

2469
01:23:42,350 --> 01:23:40,980
seemingly impossible potentials you know

2470
01:23:44,950 --> 01:23:42,360
one of the big takeaways for me this

2471
01:23:47,390 --> 01:23:44,960
year and truly a a bucket list

2472
01:23:50,330 --> 01:23:47,400
conversation was uh getting to finally

2473
01:23:51,950 --> 01:23:50,340
speak with Jacques valet he's been a you

2474
01:23:53,209 --> 01:23:51,960
know a guy whose work I have followed

2475
01:23:55,850 --> 01:23:53,219
for years I've had tremendous respect

2476
01:23:56,930 --> 01:23:55,860
for him uh and uh our very own Chrissy

2477
01:23:58,970 --> 01:23:56,940
Newton of the debrief actually

2478
01:24:00,290 --> 01:23:58,980
facilitated that conversation put me in

2479
01:24:02,390 --> 01:24:00,300
touch with jock and it was wonderful to

2480
01:24:05,209 --> 01:24:02,400
be able to speak with him and one of the

2481
01:24:07,189 --> 01:24:05,219
things I focused on uh apart from UAP

2482
01:24:09,770 --> 01:24:07,199
and even his role in creation of the

2483
01:24:12,110 --> 01:24:09,780
internet was of talk he gave back in

2484
01:24:13,850 --> 01:24:12,120
2013 talking about impossible Futures

2485
01:24:15,229 --> 01:24:13,860
and he says that throughout history

2486
01:24:16,970 --> 01:24:15,239
there have been many instances where

2487
01:24:18,890 --> 01:24:16,980
people have been completely surprised by

2488
01:24:21,229 --> 01:24:18,900
a technological development that would

2489
01:24:22,910 --> 01:24:21,239
have been deemed impossible only a few

2490
01:24:24,830 --> 01:24:22,920
years before it happened

2491
01:24:27,530 --> 01:24:24,840
and this has been the case in history of

2492
01:24:29,450 --> 01:24:27,540
War and the history of Silicon Valley an

2493
01:24:32,030 --> 01:24:29,460
area where he's done a lot of work

2494
01:24:33,830 --> 01:24:32,040
UAP may represent one of those seemingly

2495
01:24:35,510 --> 01:24:33,840
impossible Futures that ballet talked

2496
01:24:37,370 --> 01:24:35,520
about again many people would have

2497
01:24:39,290 --> 01:24:37,380
considered it crazy

2498
01:24:40,610 --> 01:24:39,300
that there were unknown objects in our

2499
01:24:42,350 --> 01:24:40,620
airspace that the military had been

2500
01:24:44,990 --> 01:24:42,360
tracking and detecting and studying

2501
01:24:48,169 --> 01:24:45,000
until what happened in 2017 and then it

2502
01:24:50,570 --> 01:24:48,179
became suddenly this realization to much

2503
01:24:53,149 --> 01:24:50,580
of the public wow there are things

2504
01:24:54,830 --> 01:24:53,159
that we don't really know what they are

2505
01:24:56,930 --> 01:24:54,840
what their intentions may be where they

2506
01:24:58,970 --> 01:24:56,940
come from and what that means in the

2507
01:25:00,410 --> 01:24:58,980
broader scope of National Security but

2508
01:25:02,750 --> 01:25:00,420
it goes so much further than that I mean

2509
01:25:04,070 --> 01:25:02,760
it goes beyond to questions about our

2510
01:25:07,130 --> 01:25:04,080
place in the universe questions about

2511
01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:07,140
spirituality you know there are a lot of

2512
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:10,320
questions and so I hope that if indeed

2513
01:25:14,090 --> 01:25:11,760
the kinds of things we were discussing

2514
01:25:16,790 --> 01:25:14,100
in the last question with regard to the

2515
01:25:19,130 --> 01:25:16,800
ndaa and what might result from the

2516
01:25:22,130 --> 01:25:19,140
passage of this into legislation while

2517
01:25:24,110 --> 01:25:22,140
there's obviously positivity there I

2518
01:25:25,850 --> 01:25:24,120
wonder sometimes if indeed the things

2519
01:25:28,669 --> 01:25:25,860
that many of us suspect the UAP

2520
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:28,679
phenomena could represent and that's

2521
01:25:32,270 --> 01:25:30,719
still a could we don't know for sure but

2522
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:32,280
as we learn more about it if indeed some

2523
01:25:36,890 --> 01:25:34,800
of those speculations and some of those

2524
01:25:40,550 --> 01:25:36,900
perspectives are confirmed I mean this

2525
01:25:42,770 --> 01:25:40,560
could really radically change the way we

2526
01:25:43,970 --> 01:25:42,780
look at the world and how our society is

2527
01:25:46,550 --> 01:25:43,980
structured even I mean there are a lot

2528
01:25:48,110 --> 01:25:46,560
of potentials so I naturally hope

2529
01:25:50,990 --> 01:25:48,120
that going forward it will continue to

2530
01:25:53,050 --> 01:25:51,000
be positive growth and that Humanity can

2531
01:25:57,110 --> 01:25:53,060
change and adapt and respond

2532
01:26:00,530 --> 01:25:57,120
intelligently uh and always

2533
01:26:01,970 --> 01:26:00,540
with a degree of

2534
01:26:03,649 --> 01:26:01,980
I don't want to term this because this

2535
01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:03,659
is a big subject

2536
01:26:07,970 --> 01:26:05,880
I hope that Humanity can adapt and I

2537
01:26:09,950 --> 01:26:07,980
hope that they can accept

2538
01:26:12,110 --> 01:26:09,960
what the future might hold and that that

2539
01:26:13,669 --> 01:26:12,120
will be positive but much of that will

2540
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:13,679
have everything to do with how we

2541
01:26:17,930 --> 01:26:16,320
interpret and respond to it I think that

2542
01:26:20,090 --> 01:26:17,940
the ball is in some ways in our court

2543
01:26:21,709 --> 01:26:20,100
and I hope that going forward the more

2544
01:26:24,530 --> 01:26:21,719
we learn about UAP the more it will help

2545
01:26:26,510 --> 01:26:24,540
us as humans grow if that makes sense

2546
01:26:27,950 --> 01:26:26,520
and maybe we get to see that picture of

2547
01:26:29,330 --> 01:26:27,960
the black triangle coming out the water

2548
01:26:31,189 --> 01:26:29,340
that everyone's been waiting on Tim

2549
01:26:33,470 --> 01:26:31,199
McMillan uh getting released now for

2550
01:26:35,090 --> 01:26:33,480
some time well I wouldn't hold my breath

2551
01:26:37,310 --> 01:26:35,100
on that you know Tim and I we've talked

2552
01:26:38,810 --> 01:26:37,320
about that I even uh decided to try and

2553
01:26:40,129 --> 01:26:38,820
pursue that one a little myself I

2554
01:26:41,810 --> 01:26:40,139
haven't written anything about that but

2555
01:26:43,370 --> 01:26:41,820
you know and timid just told me flatly

2556
01:26:45,169 --> 01:26:43,380
he doesn't think that it's very likely

2557
01:26:48,410 --> 01:26:45,179
that we'll ever see that but then again

2558
01:26:50,149 --> 01:26:48,420
you never know there are times where uh

2559
01:26:51,290 --> 01:26:50,159
stranger things I'll just say have

2560
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:51,300
happened

2561
01:26:55,250 --> 01:26:53,760
um I won't I won't deny that I've been

2562
01:26:57,530 --> 01:26:55,260
interested in the triangle thing for a

2563
01:26:59,390 --> 01:26:57,540
long time uh there are photographs that

2564
01:27:01,010 --> 01:26:59,400
I think are very real credible

2565
01:27:02,870 --> 01:27:01,020
representations of those craft that do

2566
01:27:04,189 --> 01:27:02,880
exist I've interviewed countless

2567
01:27:06,290 --> 01:27:04,199
Witnesses who say that they've seen

2568
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:06,300
those things who knows maybe that photo

2569
01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:07,920
will finally be shown but I think that

2570
01:27:10,610 --> 01:27:09,120
if anything there may be better

2571
01:27:11,870 --> 01:27:10,620
photographs out there that we just don't

2572
01:27:14,750 --> 01:27:11,880
know about yet

2573
01:27:16,790 --> 01:27:14,760
not yet got Micah on that note thank you

2574
01:27:18,530 --> 01:27:16,800
and to all of those who have contributed

2575
01:27:20,090 --> 01:27:18,540
to the debrief over the course of this

2576
01:27:22,910 --> 01:27:20,100
year it's a huge source of information

2577
01:27:24,050 --> 01:27:22,920
to myself and to many others also to

2578
01:27:26,030 --> 01:27:24,060
anyone who goes out their way to

2579
01:27:28,070 --> 01:27:26,040
research write or record their views on

2580
01:27:29,990 --> 01:27:28,080
the UFO topic no matter how small or

2581
01:27:32,450 --> 01:27:30,000
large our audience is a big thank you

2582
01:27:34,430 --> 01:27:32,460
from me uh it's hugely appreciated and

2583
01:27:35,870 --> 01:27:34,440
have a great festive holiday period and

2584
01:27:37,910 --> 01:27:35,880
a very happy new year when it comes to

2585
01:27:40,669 --> 01:27:37,920
it thanks again Micah thank you and I

2586
01:27:43,250 --> 01:27:40,679
hope that is 2023 continues that UFO

2587
01:27:45,169 --> 01:27:43,260
podcast continues to be that UFO podcast

2588
01:27:46,310 --> 01:27:45,179
it's a great resource everything you

2589
01:27:47,810 --> 01:27:46,320
said about the debrief we think the same

2590
01:27:48,530 --> 01:27:47,820
about you my friend and please keep it

2591
01:27:51,470 --> 01:27:48,540
up

2592
01:27:53,149 --> 01:27:51,480
it will at least be a UFO podcast thank

2593
01:27:55,490 --> 01:27:53,159
you it's a good one

2594
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:55,500
that is all for this week's show thank

2595
01:27:59,149 --> 01:27:57,360
you very much for listening please

2596
01:28:01,790 --> 01:27:59,159
remember to leave the podcast a review

2597
01:28:04,310 --> 01:28:01,800
on your chosen platform you can like

2598
01:28:06,290 --> 01:28:04,320
retweet And subscribe that would all be

2599
01:28:08,330 --> 01:28:06,300
very much appreciated the shows are

2600
01:28:09,950 --> 01:28:08,340
being uploaded onto YouTube as we speak

2601
01:28:12,410 --> 01:28:09,960
more and more you can sign up at

2602
01:28:14,570 --> 01:28:12,420
patreon.com forward slash that UFO

2603
01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:14,580
podcast to access it shows ad free as

2604
01:28:19,729 --> 01:28:16,560
well please get in touch on Twitter

2605
01:28:23,629 --> 01:28:19,739
Facebook Instagram that UFO podcast of

2606
01:28:25,610 --> 01:28:23,639
course on Twitter it's at UFO UAP am and

2607
01:28:29,629 --> 01:28:25,620
again folks as always keep looking up

2608
01:28:29,639 --> 01:28:33,950
foreign

2609
01:29:03,950 --> 01:28:55,410
[Music]

2610
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:36,580
oh

2611
01:30:29,590 --> 01:29:43,720
[Music]

2612
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:36,400
can't sleep forever

2613
01:30:57,550 --> 01:30:42,640
[Music]

2614
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:01,430
you can hear them

2615
01:31:01,440 --> 01:31:25,030
[Music]

2616
01:31:31,370 --> 01:31:27,240
thank you

2617
01:31:33,350 --> 01:31:31,380
[Music]